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GTAm Clone build

11K views 26 replies 7 participants last post by  JCDK 
#1 · (Edited)
We are pretty far along on this build but I will share our experience. The car started out as a '73 GTV that I bought about 8 years ago. It was a nice car with low miles but had been stored in a barn and had a fair amount of rust to the outer rockers, quarters, floor boards, A pillar, and rear fender well openings - pretty typical stuff.

Along the way I replaced the Wheels and tires:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Alfa romeo 105 series coupes Regularity rally


With Toyo 205s on Rota 15" wheels:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Alfa romeo 105 series coupes Regularity rally


Replaced the '73 grille with a '69:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car Alfa romeo 105 series coupes


Replaced the interior with flying buttress seats:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car Car seat


And replaced the rear seat with a shelf (in progress picture):
Vehicle door Vehicle Car Wood Automotive exterior



I also had a number of motors in and out of the car over the years.
I used it as a summertime semi-daily driver for a number of years but realized that not addressing the rust issues was not doing it any good. At the same time, the value of GTVs had taken a serious hit and I couldn't justify spending the time or money to bring it back stock. So it sat for the last few years.

About a year and a half ago we were approached by an Alfisti on the west coast that was interested in doing a street GTAm build. At first I was hesitant since I've never done anything like that before but the more we talked the more it sounded doable. The project would be challenging but my (correct) impression was that the guy knew his stuff and knew what he wanted but was willing to listen to reason when things had to change. The overall objectives being:



  • GTAm widebody for the street that could be run on the track.
  • Fiberglass fenders (originally steel but we decided against that).
  • Small tailights, '69 GTV grille, '69 GTV dash (fiberglass).
  • Full roll cage with reasonable egress.
  • Comfortable cabin with carpet and passenger seats.
  • Air Conditioning (later deleted)
  • Twin Spark motor.
  • Tilton brakes
  • Panhard rear end.
  • Lots of other details.

It was a daunting task and I was happy when he was willing to include Mike Besic in on the project. He knows more than I ever will and is more than willing to offer his advise on any number of areas. No way could we have succeeded without Mike.
 
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#3 ·
Rockers and quarters were toast on the outside but other than some surface rust the middle and inner rockers were in fine shape:
Rust


Replaced the quarters and rockers:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Automotive exterior Family car


Engine bay came out nice:
Auto part Vehicle Engine Metal


The floors were touch and go but we finally decided to patch rather than replace:
Vehicle Automotive exterior Aircraft


A-pillar repair work:
Tire Automotive tire Auto part Automotive wheel system Wheel
 
#4 · (Edited)
Then it was off to Besic's to fit a roll cage and some other items.

All wrapped up for the trip west:
Vehicle Transport Car Automotive exterior Automotive wheel system


Mike's beautiful roll cage with easy egress for driver and passenger:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car


A view of the rear cage:
Automotive exterior Bumper Vehicle Auto part Car


and a shot of the panhard and rear reinforcement:
Vehicle Auto part Engine Car


And the modification for the Tilton MCs:
Auto part Engine Vehicle
 
#5 · (Edited)
We then got busy with opening up the rear fenders.

The before:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car Sedan


during (using a plasma cutter):
Welding Fender Service



after:
Vehicle Motor vehicle Car Fender Automotive exterior








Now, before we went any further, we sandblasted the shell a second time and then re-primed in black epoxy (you can see we also closed up the '73 rear valance in order to fit the '69 taillights ):
Vehicle Car Steel Metal


Because the rear has an inner fender we welded back in a strip to close off the area.
Steel Pipe Wheel Metal


This was very tricky as you are working with thin metals, butt welding on edge. A lot of spot welds and a lot of patience...
 
#6 ·
Then it was on to the front fender cut outs. In this case we elected to lay out the pattern and then cut it out with a cutoff wheel. We wanted clean cuts and round corners:

Automotive exterior Bumper Auto part Fender Tire


Automotive exterior Bumper Vehicle Fender Auto part


Welding Welder Automotive exterior Bumper Vehicle




Frankly it was sobering watching as we cut out most of the quarter panels that we so carefully welded in a few months earlier. I suppose no one will see the work but its how we wanted to do it...
 
#7 · (Edited)
Then on to fitting the fiberglass fenders. This was the most frightening part of the build. These fenders are built with racing in mind but our goal was a street car so fit and finish was critical. We fussed over the fit for months. Everybody I talked to had issues with the fenders. Set them to the bodyline and the doors jams are off. Set the door jams and it doesn't fit around the headlights. And the rears were worse yet. Nothing made sense. At one point I was convinced that there was something wrong with the fiberglass fenders. I was also concerned with how flimsy they are are in the free state.

Fortunately the Alfa Nationals were in Detroit and I had a chance to pour over a GTAm at Waterford. With that I was able to finally figure out the correct position of the fenders. Shortly after that, bodyman Nate joined the team and made short work of it. In no time he had pre-drilled all the holes for the rivets. Once we were satisfied with the fit, we used 3M panel bond adhesive and Cleco clamps to glue the fiberglass panels to the fenders. Once that was completed it also gave me peace of mind that the panels were stiff enough to live on the streets.

Fender Automotive exterior Vehicle Auto part Hardtop


Vehicle Aerospace engineering Naval architecture Car


Vehicle Car Fender Automotive wheel system Auto part


Then it was back to the booth to fare in the fenders (lot of work to make them pretty):

Vehicle Car Classic car Sedan Coupé


Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car Coupé


The hole on the top of the rear fender is where the filler cap goes. We are using a center mounted fuel cell so there is a bit of plumbing to get there but again, Mike Besic took care of that.



.
 
#10 ·
And the result of a lot of hard work:

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car Coupé


Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car Sedan


Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car Coupé


No time to admire the handiwork. We had to get going on dressing out the shell. First we threw enough suspension on it to get it off the dolly and rolling. The seats shown were the client's first choice but they turned out to be too big to fit properly. Also they were just out of scale with the rest of the car. More on that later:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car Coupé


We rebuilt the steering box and idler arm and started to assemble the engine bay:
Red Vehicle Car Auto part
 
#11 ·
Many details:

Badges and Stainless trim:
Vehicle Car Automotive exterior Hood Bumper


GTA Door handles:
Land vehicle Motor vehicle Vehicle Car Red


GTA License light bracket:
Red Vehicle Car Automotive exterior Bumper


With the interior, in addition to the bedliner, we apply a layer of dynamat type sheet:
Vehicle Car Automotive exterior Auto part City car


And then apply rubber paint over the top. Ultimately the cabin will have carpet and this helps to keep things from slipping. We have found that this combination does a great job of eliminating the tin can effect, reducing noise and heat:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car Sedan
 
#12 · (Edited)
More details:

The stanchions for the rollcage are welded to the inner rocker. This presented a challenge for the stainless kick plate:
Automotive exterior Bumper Trunk Vehicle door Vehicle



But it came out well:
Vehicle Car Automotive exterior Bumper Grille



The turn signal lights are reproductions of the mini's from the 60s:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Headlamp Automotive lighting



We blacked out the inner grille:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Automotive exterior Bumper



Finally decided on the stock GTV grille and mesh without the horizontal bars. Later we substituted amber inner lights:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Classic car Bumper
 
#14 ·
The dash was an interesting project in itself. We chose to use a fiberglass unit from Classic Alfa. It is well made but requires a fair amount of work to be presentable. It also requires some internal bracing and brackets to be welded to the body attachment. You also loose the glove box:
Vehicle Bumper Automotive exterior Auto part Car


In this picture you can also see the Tilton pedals and the heim joint used to provide adjustment of the steering column. You can also see the vents for what was the air conditioning unit. We later abandoned the AC and returned to the factory heater unit:
Motor vehicle Vehicle Automotive exterior Auto part Car


We didn't want a center console so we went with a pod from a GT jr. Here you can see we are fitting the gauges. The factory GTV gauges have a built in oil pressure gauge but since we had a separate gauge for the oil pressure we decided to use a Spider tach and Speedo:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Steering wheel Classic car



After everything was finalized, the dash was finished with texture paint with a top coat of vinyl paint. The look is incredibly close to the factory vinyl dash. Note how the lower pod was seamlessly blended into the dash - it looks like one piece. You could not have done that with the factory dash.
Bumper Automotive exterior Gun



Here is the final arrangement of the dash. In addition to the Speedo and tach, we have oil pressure and temp, water temp, amperes, and fuel level. The switches are wipers, fog lights, heater fan and radiator fan. Idiot lights are low oil, brake fail, running lights and high beams. To the left of the steering column is the ignition key and to the right (where the lighter is typically) is a push button start. We have yet to install the 4 way flashers and a 12V socket:
Land vehicle Vehicle Car Gauge Steering wheel
 
#23 ·
The dash was an interesting project in itself. We chose to use a fiberglass unit from Classic Alfa. It is well made but requires a fair amount of work to be presentable. It also requires some internal bracing and brackets to be welded to the body attachment. You also loose the glove box:
View attachment 760209

In this picture you can also see the Tilton pedals and the heim joint used to provide adjustment of the steering column. You can also see the vents for what was the air conditioning unit. We later abandoned the AC and returned to the factory heater unit:
View attachment 760217

We didn't want a center console so we went with a pod from a GT jr. Here you can see we are fitting the gauges. The factory GTV gauges have a built in oil pressure gauge but since we had a separate gauge for the oil pressure we decided to use a Spider tach and Speedo:
View attachment 760225


After everything was finalized, the dash was finished with texture paint with a top coat of vinyl paint. The look is incredibly close to the factory vinyl dash. Note how the lower pod was seamlessly blended into the dash - it looks like one piece. You could not have done that with the factory dash.
View attachment 760233


Here is the final arrangement of the dash. In addition to the Speedo and tach, we have oil pressure and temp, water temp, amperes, and fuel level. The switches are wipers, fog lights, heater fan and radiator fan. Idiot lights are low oil, brake fail, running lights and high beams. To the left of the steering column is the ignition key and to the right (where the lighter is typically) is a push button start. We have yet to install the 4 way flashers and a 12V socket:
View attachment 760241
Hey sorry to resurrect an old thread. I am looking into using one of the fiberglass dashes on offer either from Classic Alfa or Alfaholics for my 71 1750. Curious about a couple of the comments you made on your dash for this build-When you say bracing and brackets need to be welded to the body attachment, is it possible for you to elaborate? I am concerned about pulling my dash and then getting in over my head if there is a bunch of welding needed. On that note, was the fit of the dash itself pretty good or did you need to made cuts to it for it to sit correctly?
Also, can you please say which texture and vinyl paints you used for the dash finish? I have read people using bed liner but that seems pretty gritty.
Thanks!!!
 
#17 ·
Really it's nothing special - Rustoleum Flexidip. I buy it at home depot:

Bikini Swimwear Lingerie Undergarment Fun



It is sort of a belt and suspenders approach. We originally used it because the carpets would slide on the slippery surfaces. Plus, with some carpets there are gaps between the edges and the silver would show through. When we have the bedliner, dynamat and the rubber paint applied to the floors we end up with a really solid feel and virtually no heat transfer (with the heat shield installed of course).
 
#18 · (Edited)
Next was the rear shelf. We built a frame from box tube:
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[iurl="http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=760409&d=1427916314"]
[/iurl]

We used 1/2" plywood for the panels:
[iurl="http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=760417&d=1427916327"]
[/iurl]

[iurl="http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=760425&d=1427916343"]
[/iurl]


Which we then covered in vinyl. The shelf bottom lifts up for a fair amount of storage. We will cut a piece of carpet to put over the shelf bottom so the vinyl doesn't get scratched if something sharp is thrown back there:
[iurl="http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=760433&d=1427916352"]
[/iurl]
 

Attachments

#20 ·
Nice work as usual.

A couple of comments confused me. It is likely I miss-understood though ...

You said back in your earlier posts that the original GTAm flares were metal. That is incorrect, they were fibre glass.

Also what was holding the flares on until you put the rivets in? BTW: The rivets should have been painted but personal choice I guess.

Can I ask/suggest that the original metal arches that you cut off are donated to somebody else restoration project, expecially the rear arches. Would be a great use of the parts you no longer require.

Best
Pete
 
#21 ·
Hi Pete,

Poor sentence structure on my part. What I meant was that the owner originally wanted to make steel fenders until I talked him out of it.

The flairs are glued with 3M panel adhesive. Would never have been used in racing since I imagine the idea was that you could quickly replace the flairs by drilling out the rivets. The adhesive render the rivets decorative and as such we decided to keep them natural. They are also smaller than I think would have been used but that was a personal choice.

We did indeed keep all the cutouts. We may need them for a 68 GTV build coming up but if not I will definitely offer them.

I really cringed when we cut into this car but I felt its long term survival was assured in this state. The market is just not there for the money needed to restore a '73 US version... Someday when these cars are worth $500k the restorer will be cursing my name. Unless they try to pawn it off as an original GTAm!
 
#24 ·
I'll need to dig into the archives to answer all your questions but for now I can tell you:

I was very pleased with the overall fit of the fiberglass dash. We didn't have to trim or otherwise fiddle with it to get it to fit. Of course you'll need to cut open the gauge openings and (I can't recall for sure) maybe the defroster vents.

You do need to add some braces to the inside of the dash - we used just a simple rod (I think about 1/8" Dia) which we welded a washer on either end and then epoxied them into the dash. Maybe four spots long the length of the dash.

I think we had to weld brackets to the body because the car was a GTV2000 with the startrek dash. If you have a '71 I imagine you'd already have the brackets. Regardless, you wouldn't need to weld - pop rivets, sheet metal screws, etc would probably work.

I'll look up the texture but I think it was rattle can bedliner followed by rattle can vinyl paint (black of course).

Really a pretty straightforward project.

I'll look for pictures as well.

Good luck!
 
#26 ·
I've done a couple of polyester dash conversions too, what you need to understand first is how the (both 1750 and later 2 liter/unificato dashes are mounted in the car. (maybe you know,-go directly to the 2nd half..)
there's 2 U shaped brackets with m 6 bolts that are reached through the vent holes on top, and 2 M6 nuts, 1 on each side at the bottom of the A pillar. Those nuts hold 2 rather large brackets that are riveted to the inner structure of the normal dash, so you are using those brackets together with the 2 U shaped ones that are (riveted again) at the front of the vent holes.

What I've done is glue (hi-tack or any other modern stuf) some pieces of 12 mm/half inch plywood in place where the brackets will be for 2 reasons, they mimmick the thickness of the old dash, and they give you something to screw the brackets into.. (be carefull about the length of those screws)

All fairly straightforward, and I believe there's this guy Bob, you can call your uncle..

I'll try to dig up some photo's too..

JC
Thanks to you both.
If you have any photos that surface I would love to see them.
I'm having a little bit of a hard time picturing the brackets needed, and my manual doesn't have any discussion of interior parts, but I guess it will make more sense when I remove the old one. Is it not possible to remove and use the brackets from the old dash?
I spoke to Bob (not yer uncle) at alfa panels, and he said that his dashes are made with the main brackets bonded to the dash itself, and that I just need to bond the side/A pillar brackets to the dash once I identify exactly where they need to be.
 
#25 ·
Brackets

I've done a couple of polyester dash conversions too, what you need to understand first is how the (both 1750 and later 2 liter/unificato dashes are mounted in the car. (maybe you know,-go directly to the 2nd half..)
there's 2 U shaped brackets with m 6 bolts that are reached through the vent holes on top, and 2 M6 nuts, 1 on each side at the bottom of the A pillar. Those nuts hold 2 rather large brackets that are riveted to the inner structure of the normal dash, so you are using those brackets together with the 2 U shaped ones that are (riveted again) at the front of the vent holes.

What I've done is glue (hi-tack or any other modern stuf) some pieces of 12 mm/half inch plywood in place where the brackets will be for 2 reasons, they mimmick the thickness of the old dash, and they give you something to screw the brackets into.. (be carefull about the length of those screws)

All fairly straightforward, and I believe there's this guy Bob, you can call your uncle..

I'll try to dig up some photo's too..

JC
 
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