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Guess what I saw 'hanging in the wild'!
Ciao, Olaf
Ciao, Olaf
GTA-SA forced induction 4 cylinder competition engines
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Must have MORE pictures of this one!!
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Only a few days ago, I was wondering why there is so little talk about these engines on the BB or anywhere else. Nobody seems to be racing a car with this engine, perhaps because they're troublesome, or because they were reputed to have horrifically bad fuel consumption (90 litres/100km 
)? About three years ago someone posted a grainy colour photo of a small stash of these engines, at least 2 or 3 of them, and from memory the blocks were painted (or anodised?) gold. I'd love to see this thread develop with information on the GTA-SA.
Alex.
)? About three years ago someone posted a grainy colour photo of a small stash of these engines, at least 2 or 3 of them, and from memory the blocks were painted (or anodised?) gold. I'd love to see this thread develop with information on the GTA-SA. Alex.
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All the pictures
Patience! I will post the pictures but wil not hurry.
I saw this engine at our Spettacolo Sportivo on the circuit of Assen in Holland last weekend. We had our national 2-day event and this year it was special because our club (SCARB) has been in existance for 30 years (look at the 'events' chapter here on alfabb.
The owner brought it especially to show it because it is very rare. I'll check the number of GTA-SA cars built later. Maybe fellow members can help with that.
This engine is not going to be used any time soon. It needs work. I did not see a car it could be built into. The owner has a real 1600 GTA and knows what he is talking about.
Christine Beckers used to race a GTA-SA. There is a picture of her driving a car. I'll try to find it. I also saw the picture with the three GTA-SA engines in it. Some parts were anodized in 'gold' if I remember correctly. Anybody that has that picture? Were the airboxes 'gold'? This engine is certainly not one of those three.
I'll come back with more info!
Ciao, Olaf
Hello ECARRILLO,Zagato Olaf,
Good pictures and good tease - can you now put all the pictures you have
Also, how did you come across this engine? Do you know what car is this going into or what is it being used for?
Thanks!
Patience! I will post the pictures but wil not hurry.
I saw this engine at our Spettacolo Sportivo on the circuit of Assen in Holland last weekend. We had our national 2-day event and this year it was special because our club (SCARB) has been in existance for 30 years (look at the 'events' chapter here on alfabb.
The owner brought it especially to show it because it is very rare. I'll check the number of GTA-SA cars built later. Maybe fellow members can help with that.
This engine is not going to be used any time soon. It needs work. I did not see a car it could be built into. The owner has a real 1600 GTA and knows what he is talking about.
Christine Beckers used to race a GTA-SA. There is a picture of her driving a car. I'll try to find it. I also saw the picture with the three GTA-SA engines in it. Some parts were anodized in 'gold' if I remember correctly. Anybody that has that picture? Were the airboxes 'gold'? This engine is certainly not one of those three.
I'll come back with more info!
Ciao, Olaf
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Developing this thread
Thanks for the input! I'll do my best to develop this thread with your help and all the other members.
These engines are pretty rare and I wouldn't be surpirised if they turn out to be difficult to drive and/or maintain. I will have to look into that.
On the picture with the three GTA-SA engines; look at my previous post.
Ciao! Olaf
Hello Alex,Only a few days ago, I was wondering why there is so little talk about these engines on the BB or anywhere else. Nobody seems to be racing a car with this engine, perhaps because they're troublesome? About three years ago someone posted a grainy colour photo of a small stash of these engines, at least 2 or 3 of them, and from memory the blocks were painted (or anodised?) gold. I'd love to see this thread develop with information on the GTA-SA.
Alex.
Thanks for the input! I'll do my best to develop this thread with your help and all the other members.
These engines are pretty rare and I wouldn't be surpirised if they turn out to be difficult to drive and/or maintain. I will have to look into that.
On the picture with the three GTA-SA engines; look at my previous post.
Ciao! Olaf
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Woah! Check that goin sideways! Animal...Only a few days ago, I was wondering why there is so little talk about these engines on the BB or anywhere else. Nobody seems to be racing a car with this engine, perhaps because they're troublesome, or because they were reputed to have horrifically bad fuel consumption (90 litres/100km
Alex.
With the engine, is it true that the superchargers on this thing were actually oil driven rather than belt driven? If so, any idea what type of supercharger it was and if it can be found anywhere at all, or if it was a part made by Alfa?
Id love to see one of these in GTA, Id be tempted to say it'd go harder than the GT Am (definitely has more power thats for sure)...
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GTA-SA Engine Pictures
Most likely, the gold tint on some of the engine pieces is the result of a coating process called "Chromate Conversion." It is a dipping process, as I recall, and is designed to provide a protective coating for aluminum, and it always leaves a gold tint on the treated piece. I think it will work on magnesium, too (in the first picture, the engine looks like it has the GTA deep sump, which was usually cast in magnesium, I think.)
I had the block, head, intake manifold and cam cover of a GTA engine treated with Chromate Conversion. I left the front cover and deep sump alone, because they were magnesium, and I thought the engine looked exotic, with all the cast pieces either dark gray or gold-tinted. But if Chromate Conversion will in fact work on magnesium, that is good, because magnesium is more susceptible to corrosion than aluminum.
I am fairly certain that the gold color it is not the result of anodizing. Years ago, I took some Alfa engine parts to a metal treatment shop for anodizing. They told me that cast aluminum parts don't anodize well because some of the elements in the alloys used for cast parts do not accept the anodizing process. The surface ends up with blotches. I know because I asked the shop to anodize a scrap cast part as a test. It came out butt ugly!
By the way, great pictures!
OldAlfaGuy
Most likely, the gold tint on some of the engine pieces is the result of a coating process called "Chromate Conversion." It is a dipping process, as I recall, and is designed to provide a protective coating for aluminum, and it always leaves a gold tint on the treated piece. I think it will work on magnesium, too (in the first picture, the engine looks like it has the GTA deep sump, which was usually cast in magnesium, I think.)
I had the block, head, intake manifold and cam cover of a GTA engine treated with Chromate Conversion. I left the front cover and deep sump alone, because they were magnesium, and I thought the engine looked exotic, with all the cast pieces either dark gray or gold-tinted. But if Chromate Conversion will in fact work on magnesium, that is good, because magnesium is more susceptible to corrosion than aluminum.
I am fairly certain that the gold color it is not the result of anodizing. Years ago, I took some Alfa engine parts to a metal treatment shop for anodizing. They told me that cast aluminum parts don't anodize well because some of the elements in the alloys used for cast parts do not accept the anodizing process. The surface ends up with blotches. I know because I asked the shop to anodize a scrap cast part as a test. It came out butt ugly!
By the way, great pictures!
OldAlfaGuy
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Olaf,
Thanks for the pictures. Worked on one years ago, but remember nothing about it other than what it looked like. Very uncommon in the U.S. An interesting thread! Thanks.
Thanks for the pictures. Worked on one years ago, but remember nothing about it other than what it looked like. Very uncommon in the U.S. An interesting thread! Thanks.
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The picture of the 3 GTA-SA engines was taken in the shop of the late Angelo Chiapperini - a GTA racer and one-time Autodelta employee. The gold color was kind of his trademark - not sure whether it was a conversion coating or it may have been just gold metallic paint. I believe these engines were offered for sale at some point in time.
The one piece that was interesting for me about this engine that was related to me by Chiapperini is that contrary to all the information in the literature regarding bore and stroke is actually incorrect and this engine has the standard 1600 bore & stroke.
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Thanks for the explanation
Hello OldAlfaGuy,
Thanks for the explanation!
I am learning new things on Alfa's every day!
And thanks for the compliment on the pictures!
Ciao, Olaf
Hello OldAlfaGuy,
Thanks for the explanation!
I am learning new things on Alfa's every day!
And thanks for the compliment on the pictures!
Ciao, Olaf
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Thanks everybody for your input
Hello members,
Thanks for your input! Please keep the information and other pictures coming! This is great stuff!
Ciao, Olaf
Hello members,
Thanks for your input! Please keep the information and other pictures coming! This is great stuff!
Ciao, Olaf
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Bore and stroke
Hello Alleggerita,
I had a look at the partnumber on the cilinderhead. It reads 105.32.01500.00. It is a GTA number (105.32) but if I look in the parts catalog for the GTA the cilinderhead number reads 105.32.01.053.00. Any thoughts on that?
On the bore and stroke: Do you have more info on the different bores and strokes mentioned?
Ciao, Olaf
Hello Alleggerita,
I had a look at the partnumber on the cilinderhead. It reads 105.32.01500.00. It is a GTA number (105.32) but if I look in the parts catalog for the GTA the cilinderhead number reads 105.32.01.053.00. Any thoughts on that?
On the bore and stroke: Do you have more info on the different bores and strokes mentioned?
Ciao, Olaf
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Driven by oil
Yes, these superchargers were driven by oil. If you look at the pictures you will see a large auxilary oilpump on the intake side of the engine with oil lines from the pump to the superchargers. The front cover of the crankcase is a different casting. The regular front cover doesn't incorporate the auxilary oilpump.
Ciao, Olaf
Hello Alex,
Yes, these superchargers were driven by oil. If you look at the pictures you will see a large auxilary oilpump on the intake side of the engine with oil lines from the pump to the superchargers. The front cover of the crankcase is a different casting. The regular front cover doesn't incorporate the auxilary oilpump.
Ciao, Olaf
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There were 3 GTa-SA engines that I know of in existance, 1 was sold to a collector in japan and the other 2 are still on the bench of my friends workshop in Milan. They did not belong to Angelo as mentioned in the above post but to the first Autodelta Mechanic
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