[5UG]

The 1962 Veloce Spider is being reassembled after restoration and there are a couple of points I need help with.
Firstly, the engine went back in yesterday and has a new (from Classic Alfa) Veloce manifold - this has several separate downpipes.
The problem is that it fouls the back of the pedal box.
Classic Alfa say that this is due to inaccurate manufacturing of the manifold.
The only remedy seems to be to rebend one of the downpipes to get it to fit.
Any ideas?
The second question is re the rubber seal between the bootlid (trunk) and the bodywork.
The seal (once again from Classic Alfa) is approx square section (about 1/2 inch per side), with an offset U channel in it. Is the seal fixed to the bootlid or the bodywork? Also what position is the U channel?
If someone has a photo that would be really good.
Thanks for you help
Alan

 

[Subtle]

Alan

Welcome to the BB.

There are two kinds of trunk seal.

One that secures to the body and needs to be exactly the right size and softness--otherwise the fit is impossible.

The one that fits to the trunk lid is easier to do.

Patrich Hung supplies a lot of rubber fitments.

 

[Gordon Raymond]

The tubular headers can be a PITA depending on the source. I have had the best luck with those sourced from Joe Cabb at Centerline, however these are the 1600 tube diameter, not the 1300 101 or 750 Veloce tube diameter which is smaller. The later 1600 headers fit the 1300 heads with a little massaging to the flanges. The flanges are thicker and larger than 1300 header flanges, and interfere at the block / head junction.
If you need the correct diameter tubes, then you may be compelled to do some hand fitting and tube bending to avoid interference with body / suspension and tube to tube interference. Unfortunately, this work may require R & R of the engine (or head) once or twice to get them right. Many unsuspecting buyers of Giulia / Giulietta tubular headers, buy them, send them out to Jet-Hot or other finisher, install them and expect a perfect fit. Well, maybe if you are very lucky, but not that likely! Trial fit first, massage fitting to match your application, THEN have them finished. This has worked for me.

 

[5UG]

Thanks guys.
The manifold/headers has already been bought and installed (its a 1300 engine), so unless we can amend in situ it looks like the engine will have to come out again.
As far as the boot/trunk seal goes it would be very useful to see a picture if someone could post one.
There doesn't seem to be anything on Google images - even in George Kraus's album

 

[DaveB]

Removing the steering column will allow you to remove and refit the veloce exhaust manifold without removing the engine.
Removing the steering column is easy only 8 nuts or bolts and steering wheel, gets it out of the way. DaveB

 

[divotandtralee]

Dave's idea is a good one but I suspect there is more to the story.. like is this by any chance a conversion to the Veloce headers from a Normale...ala Abnormale?

If the answer is yes, you owe Alfa Classics an apology and an explanation. If you do not have the proper Veloce motor mounts you will possibly run into this problem. If you do then ignore this worthless piece of blogging and consider it a heads up and to let you know we really do read your posts and care.

If I am correct, consider me your Uncle and change the motor mounts, then the sump and the oil pick up and....... just another reason abnormale's aren't my bag.

 

[5UG]

Exhaust manifold problem sorted.
We took the engine out before reading the post from David, although we did think of taking the steering column out, it didn't seem to work, but too late now.
Tha car is a proper Veloce, not an "anormale", but who knows what incorrect parts have been fitted in the 49 years since she was built?
I don't need or appreciate the lesson on etiquette, my posting requested technical help from those who know more about these cars than me or my brother in law who has restored many different types of car, but this is the first Alfa.
Classic Alfa have supplied many parts for the restoration and have been very helpful.
When we spoke to them about the manifold they said it was unfortunately common for their supplier to make them only approximately right, for example the flange was welded incorrectly and had to be amended.
It seems some parts suppliers are happy to produce items which need the customer to rebuild them!
We didn't have problems like this when my 1965 Mercedes 220SEb convertible was restored!
It would be good to see a picture of the boot seals if someone could help with this.
Thanks
Alan

 

[divotandtralee]

Exhaust manifold problem sorted.
We took the engine out before reading the post from David, although we did think of taking the steering column out, it didn't seem to work, but too late now.
Tha car is a proper Veloce, not an "anormale", but who knows what incorrect parts have been fitted in the 49 years since she was built?
I don't need or appreciate the lesson on etiquette, my posting requested technical help from those who know more about these cars than me or my brother in law who has restored many different types of car, but this is the first Alfa.
Classic Alfa have supplied many parts for the restoration and have been very helpful.
When we spoke to them about the manifold they said it was unfortunately common for their supplier to make them only approximately right, for example the flange was welded incorrectly and had to be amended.
It seems some parts suppliers are happy to produce items which need the customer to rebuild them!
We didn't have problems like this when my 1965 Mercedes 220SEb convertible was restored!
It would be good to see a picture of the boot seals if someone could help with this.
Thanks
Alan

Point noted, I'll file this, for my sensitivity lessons I seem to be flunking. As you were a first owner the motor mount thing is a common error and in fact some first owners would make that mistake. Just trying to steer you right. If you post photos of the mounts someone with better manners will help you identify them. PS this might be a different experience than restoring a MB.. PPS the seal you have is glued to the raised flange on the body with the fat part in the trough and the slot over the flange. you might have to loosen the hinges to squerrel everything around to get it to close correctly. It's a little bit of a PITA when the seals are new.

 

[5UG]

The exhaust problem is now fixed, and thanks for the guidance with the boot/trunk seal.
I'll post some pictures on my other thread of progress.
Alan

 

[divotandtralee]

Would you be so kind as to sharing your fix?

 

[5UG]

I'm not a technical person, my role in the restoration has been writing cheques!
My brother in law is the restorer, he removed the engine, took the manifold out of the car and altered the shape to fit, and then reassembled it.
The clearance is still tight, and if there is a problem once things are running, the contingency plan is to make a thin spacer for the pedal box mounting in the bulkhead.
I've attached a picture taken before the manifold was reshaped.
Alan

 

[750sprint]

Brake line?

Alan,

Was following your project and in viewing your enclosed photo of the header downtubesn noticed the disconnected brake line off the MC in the background. That line looks very much like copper, it should be steel. Do yourself a huge favor and replace that and any other subpar brake lines with the correct material.

Vern in Oregon

 

[5UG]

Hi Vern
It seems that copper pipes are regarded as being safe in the UK, but are illegal in some or all US states.
Not knowing anything about the topic I Googled it, and came across this helpful link:
How do copper automotive brake pipes compare to steel? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers
No doubt my brother in law (the restorer) will have an opinion as well.
Alan

 

[Gordon Raymond]

It gets better. some of the top quality replacement pipe for restoration work is copper plated. This is done for corrosion resistance. As such, some tubing that appears to be copper is steel.

 

[5UG]

My brother in law tells me that the brake pipes are made of Kunifer - an alloy of copper, nickel and possibly iron.
It combines the characteristics of corrosion resistance and strength.

 

[750sprint]

Alan,

Sounds like you are in good hands. I have not heard of the product before, but sounds like a good one. Probably really nice when creating all the intricate bends involved in these brake lines. I have been using stainless stock when creating my new lines, it is difficult stuff to shape. I will check out your product!

Vern in Oregon

 

[5UG]

Hi Vern
The product is sometimes known as Cunifer - I think Kunifer might be a brand name.
I've attached another photo which shows the rear brake pipes - this illustrates your point about the neat bends.
Alan

 

[750sprint]

Brake line material

Alan,

Looks like you are in good hands. I have not heard of this product, but I bet it is a lot easier to form all those tight bends than stainless, which is the alternative I have been using.

Vern in Oregon

 

[5UG]

Is this the correct way to fit the seal?

 

[Gordon Raymond]

That seems right Alan, but you need a Giulietta owner that can remember than I.
A worthwhile point is WHY the rubber moved from the body to trunk lid. The answer is RUST. The closed covering of the cells on the rubber wears away, (or is torn /damaged) allowing it to absorb water like a sponge. In constant contact with whatever, eventually it causes rust. Alfa then moved it to the lid. It caused rust there too, usually on the back lip of the trunk, for the same reasons. Another point worth consideration is the location of the end seam. It should be at the top, behind the rear window, not at the bottom by the latch. This will keep the open end grain of the rubber away from pooling water in rain. I also glue the ends together with super-glue and then coat the exposed seam for the same reason. Rust never sleeps.