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Discussion Starter #1
The parts manual calls out different numbers for Giubos on the Veloces, the sporting models and the berlina. Can anyone tell me what is different about them?

As long as we're here, does anyone care to comment on the quality of the available repros?
 

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I've bought plenty from Centerline and Jon Norman, always OK, other than one from CL a few years ago that had ground-off tangs and was, according to those who knew, a modified Fiat giubo.

Andrew
 

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I replace them regularly, and have used a few. No failures from any source. About 20 years ago I started using the caged GTA (steel light cage) assembly on my GTA powered Ausca spider. I then replaced that with Spruell's aluminum caged unit (more time to slow down with failure). Most recently, my spare GTA CR transmission is now fitted with Spruell's steel caged (thick steel) unit with the German Mercedes Benz giubo. This remains untried. I use the cages as I did manage to bend a driveshaft in racing when my car was being raced regularly. I've seen the damage exploding clutches and flywheels do to vintage Alfas, as well as giubo failure. Karen McGowan (Hotlegs on the BB) has had the most exciting failure of this type, on the street! The disconnected short shaft, at 90+mph, cut through the brake lines, fuel line and electrical line, causing FIRE at 90+mph with no brakes, as the remains tried to cut the car in half. As mentioned, no matter what type you use, check it for ANY deterioration, or suspicion of issues,often. Replace periodically if you drive the car.
From my (and others) experience.
 

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I use uncaged on street cars, my track car has the Norman/Katchee cage, which is a moderno deravizione of the 105.16 TI Super/GTA cage. Never had a donut failure. Used an aluminum cage once (Spruell? not sure) with the modifed Fiat donut, which I did not realize was wrong, wouldn't do again. That donut moved around enough and has stress point sufficient to break the alum cage in one event, see pics before and after.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I take it, then, that there is no difference in the dimensions of the different Giubos listed in the parts manual, i.e., they interchange. I suppose that this is one of those parts where new repro is better than NOS.
 

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I would guess there was a strength difference maybe originally for the Veloces. Very early Berlinas used smaller bolts, maybe all did very early on, I don't know. But my 56 Berlina luckily had a good small-bolt donut.

I think the listings now are 750-2000, all the same. For something rubber and critical, yes I'd rather go with new than NOS.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I would guess there was a strength difference maybe originally for the Veloces. Very early Berlinas used smaller bolts, maybe all did very early on, I don't know. But my 56 Berlina luckily had a good small-bolt donut.

I think the listings now are 750-2000, all the same. For something rubber and critical, yes I'd rather go with new than NOS.

Andrew
Good catch on the early Berlina. I had forgotten about that.
 

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Andrew's right. Rubber ages naturally, no matter how stored. New is best. I use the same aluminum cage as Andrew pictured, it was from Spruell, currently behind my GTA engine. Installed correctly, if the giubo fails without coming completely apart all at once, it WILL ruin the aluminum cage, but the cage should allow you to slow down IF you notice the vibration.
The original GTA unit was also only a partial failure protection. Below is the latest Spruell cage with the 600hp MB giubo inside. No idea what will happen with partial failure with this one. I don't have 600 Hp to test it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Andrew's right. Rubber ages naturally, no matter how stored. New is best. I use the same aluminum cage as Andrew pictured, it was from Spruell, currently behind my GTA engine. Installed correctly, if the giubo fails without coming completely apart all at once, it WILL ruin the aluminum cage, but the cage should allow you to slow down IF you notice the vibration.
The original GTA unit was also only a partial failure protection. Below is the latest Spruell cage with the 600hp MB giubo inside. No idea what will happen with partial failure with this one. I don't have 600 Hp to test it.
I have to wonder whether the cage is worth it, with that donut!
 

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Here's my Norman/Katchee cage. Very much like 105.16 piece overall.

As I say, I've never had a donut fail, but have seen the results of others' failures. My sense is a donut coming apart is a symptom of something else wrong, not so much the cause, but not having had the experience, I can't say firsthand. I've found enough rear output shaft trunions loose (nut not torqued, etc) on transes to think that once that thing starts flailing, it's time to abandon whip.

Andrew
 

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The cages and such ARE expensive. However, the cars WERE designed to run without them WITH proper maintence which included checking and replacing factory giubo's at any sign of deterioration.
In racing, if something might break or go wrong, IT WILL. As such a "belt and suspenders" approach is taken.
In my case, though old, I still value my right foot, leg and thigh. With any performance car, in any situation, care and precautions is money well spent.
My opinion only from my experience.
 

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flex joint

A little more info on my flex joint failure. Car is a 750 Spider Veloce with a 1750 GTA engine. Basically a race engine. GTA close ratio box and 5.12 GTA LSD.
The Alfa club of Colorado was having a track event and I ran the car hard. With slicks.On the drive home- at about 100 MPH - shifting from 4th to 5th- the flex joint failed. It was a pretty new joint. But the FIAT type. Will never use this type again on anything that has been modified. The GTA flex joint cages were sitting on a shelf at home. Had not had time to install them.
Burned the car to the ground. I was lucky to get out without a scratch. But had to sit on the door sill with the interior in flames. Big flames.
As Gordon said, no brakes, etc.
I am currently using the Spruell Hi HP set up on several cars. No issues. But for most stock street Alfas, I think a real Alfa flex joint works fine. Just keep checking it.
 

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It's a great lesson Karen. We have both seen Alfa's nearly cut in half from these failures.
That and the infamous "pole vaulting" Giulia / Giuliettas. Never comes out well.
 
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