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Discussion Starter #1
My neighbor was ready for his first in-car start of his 2600T today. He's using a new, geared starter.

Got a quick start, but the starter appeared to remain engaged. We tried it a few times with same result. Quick shut downs.

Any similar experience or lookouts on these things?
 

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Don , no I have fitted two of them on different cars without a problem. Obvious question would be to count the teeth on the starter pinion and check they match the original starter motor
 

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The owner has no original starter, although I took my MT32 over yesterday. The 17mm nuts holding the geared starter in place are nigh-on impossible to get a wrench onto. I found myself wondering if some sort of incorrect wiring might result in the starter becoming a dyno and self energizing the solenoid. Hope to test that idea later today.
 

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I agree the 17mm nuts on the geared starter is impossible. When we first tried to start the car we though the starter was jamming and would have to come off (Not turning at all but just clicking) but were relived to find it was just a bad earth.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yesterday, the owner managed to remove the geared starter and replace it with an MT32 that I loaned him. Works fine, but is clearly temporary. I should hear reports of a bench test of the problematic unit today.

The geared starter remains engaged when on the car. A flawed starter, or dimensional inaccuracies that prevent retraction?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Does anyone know the tooth count on an MT42 (or MT32)?

Owner just told me that both the CA geared and MT32 have nine teeth, but the geared is a larger diameter.
 
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Does anyone know the tooth count on an MT42 (or MT32)?

Owner just told me that both the CA geared and MT32 have nine teeth, but the geared is a larger diameter.
A bigger diameter is a big problem, as the larger circumference would imply a different pitch between the teeth -- one that will not match the pitch of the ring gear on the flywheel.

Information about the Bosch starter for 2600 cars can be found in this thread. Page 2 of Bosch document sl0007.pdf states: 9 teeth, module 2.5. The module defines the pitch (see explanation here). So, if the pinion gear on the geared starter is not module 2.5, it will not work properly and probably either damage the starter or the ring on the flywheel.
 
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This is my car that Don is helping me with. He misunderstood me when I said the gear was wider. It's the same diameter and tooth count. It's wider in the profile or length, if you will. I am thinking maybe it's still partially engaged when it's retracted. I didn't measure the distance from the flange to the end of the gear on both. I should pull the Marelli don loaned me back out and measure everything. Perhaps if I shim the Power-lite starter out a bit it might work.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
To add to the mystery...



1618326531400.jpeg 1618326572026.jpeg


Classic Alfa says their stock matches the geared unit pictured above. The other starter is a spare MT32 for a CI 2000. It starts the car very well, with no complications. We understand it is under-spec for long term duty, but works for the first drive and tuning.

So.... it appears to me that the geared pinion protrudes too far, and simply remains permanently engaged in the ring gear.

CA's stock exhibits the same dimensions.

Any insights from those of you successfully using the geared starter?
 

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I measured from the flange surface to the back of the ring gear at 32mm. The Power-lite starter measures 34mm from the flange surface to the end of the gear. It is defiantly engaged at rest. Obviously not how it is supposed to be. Can someone with a 2600 engine and easy access, measure the distance from the flange surface to the back of the ring gear to confirm my measurement?
 

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FYI, here's a picture of 3 Marelli MT42 starters I have on the shelf. On all three starters, the distance from the top of the pinion gear to the flange is about 30 mm. I believe I have Bosch started mounted on an engine (but right now it's too much hassle to pull it out -- maybe somebody else has one they can measure).

1682554
have a
 

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What I have is as photo below

Both original Bosch? and WOSP Hi torque have the same just under 30mm dimension

Both worked in my car , well the Wosp did until I cooked it , when my engine decided it would have a day off.

Sam's car which I am working on has a classic alfa high torque starter which works


IMG_20210413_213157.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The "WOSP" gear on the Redmerlin starter appears to be shorter, and have more of a non-toothed shank between gear and end of shaft?
 

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It does not look like the gear is not retracting fully. Is it worth dismantling the starter to see if the actuating lever is upside down or there is a restriction somewhere?
 

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Mystery solved. I contacted Power-lite. The unit I received is missing the 5mm spacer. I fashioned one up with access to a CNC laser lickety-split. It now works like a charm. Thanks for all your input!!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Brief editorial...

A new starter that requires a shim, and won't allow socket or wrench access to the bolt heads, isn't really ready for prime time.
 
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Don

The problem is these high torque starters are bastardised from current *** car starters

I provided a dummy engine and gearbox to WOSP to develop and fit their first starter. As we talked about in 2013!

(45) alfa 1900 ss ( tipo '54-'55 ) starter | Alfa Romeo Forums (alfabb.com)

On the WOSP I rotated the starter so there is access to fit . Pity it cooked trying to turn the 2600 lump.

So half ready for prime time
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So... these are prone to self immolation as well? Nice.
 

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Not if the engine works , I cranked a dead engine for many minutes until I got a dead WOSP. When I returned to the car with a replacement old Bosch unit it started first time, off the service trucks battery . Alfas don't you just love them!
 
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