[JimPunkrockford]

i start the car then a few seconds later the fuel and oil gauges come to life. then the car dies.

question: 67 spider should the fuel gauge come on with the key but before engine running? like when the fuel pump comes on? because the pump makes a noise when i turn the key.

 

[La Voce]

Yes on the fuel gauge question. 67 spider gauges can be slow to come alive so thats no great concern but they came with mechanical fuel pumps. Did you install an electric pump?

 

[JimPunkrockford]

Yes on the fuel gauge question. 67 spider gauges can be slow to come alive so thats no great concern but they came with mechanical fuel pumps. Did you install an electric pump?

i didn't instal it but doesn't the carb engine need an electric primer pump?

the gauges pop to life together. is that natural?

 

[La Voce]

In a properly functioning car the fuel gauge and Dynamo lamp should come alive immediately when the key is turned on to the first (run) position, the oil pressure gauge immediately after engine start. A lag of a second or two on the oil pressure coming to life is no concern unless that lag gradually increases with time. I would check all the gauge grounds. Carb cars don't have to have an electric fuel pump, especially if you drive it daily, but I replaced my mechanical fuel pump with an electric one because it took a long time to get her started with the original mechanical pump after she sat in the garage for extended periods of time, and the electric pump is more reliable. There is a glass bowl fuel pressure regulator/filter combination under the carbs- is the filter clean and is the bowl full of fuel?

 

[JimPunkrockford]

There is a glass bowl fuel pressure regulator/filter combination under the carbs- is the filter clean and is the bowl full of fuel?

it has a little cheap fuel pressure dial thing and a clear plastic filter. the filter fills up about a quarter of the way (that should be enough right?) but it really does seem like it is running out of gas. the fuel pump is just to prime it right? i need to check if there is fuel in the filter right after it dies. and i should mention that i am using a squirt of starter fluid to get it started. it may be dying after the starter fluid is burned off.

so i was thinking of

1. put a little hose after the electric pump and turn on the key and see if it is pumping fuel correctly.

2. like i said before, look to see if there is fuel in the filter when the car dies

3. run a new hose temporarily and bypass filter and pressure regulator and see if maybe there is a vacuum problem

any other test is should try?

thanks for the help here, i really appreciate it

 

[La Voce]

Sounds like a fuel flow problem indeed. Was the car running fine before this problem began? When you turn the key to the first position if you hear the pump run it should fill the clear filter within a second or two. It would help to see your fuel delivery setup. Can you take a picture of your carb fuel setup and post it up here? Include a pic of the electric pump too. Stock setup was a rubber line from tank to a steel line under the car that ran up into the engine bay, then another rubber line direct to the mechanical pump, mounted down low on the carb side of the engine near the front of the car; then a rubber line from the pump to a fuel pressure regulator and filter assembly with a glass bowl, mounted under the front carb; then from the filter regulator a rubber line ran on up to the front carb. Whomever installed the electric pump on your car could have used it to simply boost fuel from the tank to the mechanical pump, but most folks just bypass the mechanical pump altogether and send the fuel direct to the pressure regulator/filter assembly under the carbs, because if the mechanical pump fails, you won't get any fuel up to the carbs anyway in this configuration. If you have a dial regulator and plastic filter it's likely the installer ran the line from the electric pump direct to the carbs. I would remove the fuel line that attaches directly to the carbs, insert it in a clean glass jar, turn on the ignition and let the pump run. You should see a steady low pressure stream of fuel flowing into the jar almost instantly, if not, start working your way back down the fuel line, stopping at every connection, including the dial regulator, until you find out why there's no fuel flow. If the pump is running, but no gas is coming forward to the carbs, you could have a blocked fuel line or a blocked fuel vent. Good luck, and report back!

 

[Alfajay]

I replaced my mechanical fuel pump with an electric one because it took a long time to get her started with the original mechanical pump after she sat in the garage for extended periods of time, and the electric pump is more reliable.

La Voce:

Are you saying

- the electric pump starts my car more reliably after it has sat for an extended period of time?

OR

- electric fuel pumps are more reliable than mechanical fuel pumps?

While I definitely concur with #1 , and have electric fuel pumps in my collector cars for that reason, I'm skeptical about #2 . Mechanical fuel pumps are dirt simple, while electric pumps rely on fuses, motors, brushes, intertial shut-off switches, etc.

Back when cars rusted away or became worn out after 10 years / 100K miles, a mechanical fuel pump would often last the life of the car,

 

[La Voce]

I will go with Yes to both. Just going by personal experience. I know plenty of folks still drive their old Alfas on mechanical pumps and wouldn't have it any other way. That's fine. But I figure if mechanical fuel pumps were bettr'n electric, modern cars would have mechanical fuel pumps. But they don't. They all have electric pumps. Just sayin'.

Lest we digress, any idea why his gauges are coming alive later than they should?

 

[Alfajay]

But I figure if mechanical fuel pumps were bettr'n electric, modern cars would have mechanical fuel pumps. But they don't. They all have electric pumps. Just sayin'.

- Modern cars have electronic fuel injection for emissions reasons.

- Electronic fuel injection requires that the fuel be delivered at much higher pressure than carburetors did.

- It is easier to achieve higher, consistent fuel pressure with a rotary-style electric pump, than with a pulsing mechanical pump.

So that's why modern cars have electric fuel pumps - nothing to do with reliability.

Heck, auto manufacturers couldn't care less about reliability; to them electric pumps are just another expensive component that their dealers can charge you to replace when it fails 2 weeks after your warranty expires.

 

[JimPunkrockford]

I would remove the fuel line that attaches directly to the carbs, insert it in a clean glass jar, turn on the ignition and let the pump run. You should see a steady low pressure stream of fuel flowing into the jar almost instantly,

so i put on some jumper cables and shot in some starting fluid then cranked up the idle screw and ran it a bit

i need to mention, which i should have from the start, that i changed the distributor over to a solid state unit and have not put a timing light on it. total eyeball as the new unit didn't lineup.

so the car can't seem to keep an idle, and it bogs when i give it gas.

did have the carbs rebuilt a month or so ago.

i guess i need to get the car timed before other stuff can get eliminated as the culprit.

thanks so much for all the input. i really appreciate it

 

[Alfajay]

i need to mention, which i should have from the start, that i changed the distributor over to a solid state unit and have not put a timing light on it. total eyeball as the new unit didn't lineup. i guess i need to get the car timed before other stuff can get eliminated as the culprit.

Uh, yea - good idea.

 

[Rallye]

Probably not the best advice but it might work: Loosen the distributor bolt & with the car running, turn the distributor slowly until it idles nicely.

Try advancing first (anti-clockwise). You shouldn't have to turn too far...

 

[JimPunkrockford]

so i put on the jumper cables and tried to start her up today and no spark. and nasty looking plugs. so i guess i need to trace back, distributor first?

 

[La Voce]

You posted up a video of it running, so now it is not- what did you do to the car between the time it was running and now?

 

[JimPunkrockford]

You posted up a video of it running, so now it is not- what did you do to the car between the time it was running and now?

nothing. i swear. i took it for a little spin around the neighborhood, shut it off in the driveway and then when i went to pull it into the garage it wouldn't start. that was tuesday, i think.

today the gas gauge comes on with the key but i don't hear the fuel pump, but there is gas in the filter. and of course, no spark!

i bought some plugs and a new multimeter. i hope it is a bad coil. i need to figure out how the test is done. not electronically inclined...

 

[Alfajay]

...and nasty looking plugs. so ...

Those plugs look fine to me - why do you say they're "nasty looking" ?

 

[La Voce]

How did it drive when you took it for a spin around the neighborhood? Did you verify timing before you drove it? Idle speed was what rpm? Did it hesitate under throttle during the drive and return to idle speed?
You said in an earlier post you did some distributor update work. Did you replace the entire distributor?

 

[JimPunkrockford]

How did it drive when you took it for a spin around the neighborhood? Did you verify timing before you drove it?

drove badly. i had the idle turned way up to keep it running. i have not been able to time it.

Idle speed was what rpm? Did it hesitate under throttle during the drive and return to idle speed?

idle speed was high, no tach, but high. yes, hesitated very badly. but the hesitation has been an ongoing problem.

You said in an earlier post you did some distributor update work. Did you replace the entire distributor?

replaced distributor to this almost a year ago.

Pertronix D185604 Flame-Thrower

i have been driving it around with this unit for the last year. i bought it hoping to cure the hesitation. it has not.

also carbs were rebuilt.

 

[JimPunkrockford]

according to this at the IPA site, resistance should be .75 - .81 between the side terminals but i get 3.5

and side terminal to center should be 10,000 to 11,000 OHMS. i get 9.95

How to Test an Ignition Coil


this coil was new with the distributor swap. quality napa stuff here. so is my coil bad?

 

[papajam]

so is my coil bad?

Not necessarily.
A coil with a few primary circuit ohms (3.0 or so) would normally be used for a points ignition system. Electronic ignitions generally use low resistance primary circuit coils like the Bosch L-jet system (0.75-0.81 ohms). Did the documentation that came with your electronic distributor mention anything about the type of coil to use?