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Discussion Starter #1

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Your pump maybe fine but you may have a dirty fine mesh filter basket in bucket surrounding it or the pre filter on end of pump if so installed maybe partially clogged if rubber mounting bushing flaking off.

There maybe trunk (boot) dive in your future.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
yea I see one coming, tank dive - no biggie as ours are set up different. It's right there and appears to be very accessible without the gyrations I read about here. I do know the pump in the car is not the original in that the PO had to have it changed. He just cant pinpoint when or recall why. I'm in full on tinker mode. I've got a whine from under the car from time to time that I have in past, thought to be exhaust related as I've heard leaks that sound like this. I'm gonna see if I can replicate it by doing the fuel pump relay jump today and see if I look stupid"er". What's keyed me in to this is I recall a few weeks ago, the car was hard to start and she is never hard to start. And she stalled once in Austria and took a "bit" to relight. Yuuup, I see a dive in future. Sooner rather than later. ciao chris
 

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Discussion Starter #5
As Brother R2 likes to say I like to say - "just 'cause". I ordered the pump from a link Evgeny provided. Should be here midweek. Some may disagree but I like to be more proactive than reactive in things like this. 100ish bucks and a few hours of my time. I think I'll remove it today for a look at the whats and needs so I have a few days to sort it if need be. Not a biggie. Did I mention that I like PayPal? ciao chris
 

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What is your chassis number? Is it before 6223526? Did you source a new 60572049 rubber bushing (item 16) that pump mounts in?

pix is for euro "plastic" fuel tank.

According to ePer pix prefilter pump installed at 6223526 and rubber hose view A-A item 21 installed at chassis 6228461. Early models only have one rubber hose item 9 and pump open at bottom with no pre-filter cap.

Early pump rubber bushing was 60801387 later one 60572049.
 

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The noise you describe can be as simple as a pump starving for fuel... Like steve said good chance something is clogging mesh filter or gone over top and past the big gasket that holds it in place now in pump..( back flush pump with wd40 cleared mine out lubricates it)..If you've been filling tank full you could have some goo or what ever has dissolved ie rubber hoses has finally made it's way to pump with tank less than quarter full..this has happened to me... Umm shamefully three times now.. because I didn't want to remove and clean out tank figured a few boot dives easier then tank out.. all good now...I checked fuel flow at engine bay with line disconnected into two litre clear container.. even with filter in place. just to see how clean fuel is...(probably better to disconnect filter and do this under car with no filtering) You could from experience drain out tank and see if anything is sitting in tank old hose etc. I put on gloves and used a clean rag to reach in and collect anything in there..first time I did it found a mass of dissolved rubber goo. PO did not' use fuel proof hose...( or just not fuel system cleaner I used proof ie too much acetone base - dissolves everything..... be weary of them in our old cars fuel lines)

If you can park car so boot is lower you can at least have legs not swinging in the breeze LOL... See that, now that's a guy whose done it too many times....
 

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Check for "soda straw" vent tube item 25 and for its one plug in hole in 60572049 rubber bushing, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
6133028 is my chassis #. It's an early car.

Random thinking: I've got half a tank in it now. I usually keep it full and yes, I have filled it to the brim before. Very seldom do I let it get low. I'm gonna drive it to drain some fuel for the next few days. Our commute is 60 miles R/T plus or minus a bit. I'm off Wednesday to run Susan around so think I'll pull the pump out then and see what I need then get it on order. If I'm in it far enuff to pull the pump/open the tank, I'll change the pump and save the old one. I think I can pull it and photo the stew out of it and then put it back in to keep the tank closed. What I dont want to have an issue with is leaving it inop while I'm back in the US. Might forget what's and where's of my project.... I really think I can have the pump out in half an hour or so. It is "right there"....

I haven't sourced anything other than the pump. I'm taking this IPB and going to the parts houses to order what I can. If it looks as tho it can dissolve or goo up, I'll change it. I don't think I'll run into too many issues getting the bits. But then again.....

The noise I can best describe as a hydrostatic crackly whine at times. I've heard lots of noisy pumps and this sound isn't like my experience. It's been making this noise since I got the car. Anyway. I'm thankful for the support. Thanx. ciao chris
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
not a lick of sense

10 minutes to get the pump ready to come out but not so fast. Dabbling with the lines that go into the pump, one out and one return I imagine, I ran into an issue getting the fitting out. Turns out it had - what I think - was a twisted o ring in it and when I got it out, it came out and didn't wanna go back in very easily compared to the black side. The white one is the problem child.

Hmmmm...maybe I'm on to something, so I put some slip and slide on the ring and fiddled with getting it placed and the clamp on. Car didn't wanna start or run well. Wasn't making pressure, or sustaining it. I went back to the trunk and there's a big leak. So I water it all down and blow it dry. yes the battery is disconnected!! Fiddled about some more and to make long story short, had a bad sealing ring. Some pics. I'll go to the o ring store tomorrow and get a few and report findings. They go in the lower groove of the fitting. In the upper groove goes a bracket type clamp that is secured with a bolt to the center threaded post between them. Not sure if the US setup is the same. Any idea which is the out side? White or black?

Added: Nevermind, I found a posting where Mr Steve says black is the return side and white the pressure side.

Of interest, I was re securing the pipe and thought I had it and the car fired instantly. It's never done that. Still had leakage so i took it all apart and found the ring with a big chunk missing. I'm guessing the o ring positioning was allowing air in, thus relieving the system pressure. Not sure if this would give me fits at high RPM but I dare say it's possible. So it's buttoned up for the night awaiting 2 o rings. My luck they be 400 euro for one!!

Believe it or not, taking the spare out allows me to cuddle up in the "mafia position" to mess with this stuff. I should just ditch the spare and free up the space for tools and parts but sure enuff, 1st road trip I'd need it. ciao chris
 

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Sounds like you've got it figured

Do the o"rings hold snug around the black and white line fittings.. vaseline to slide em on yes.....

That big top top screw cap can be very tight pain in the butt when getting it back on if you take it off.. Mine was very tight the minute the tread started on a full lap..(wish I'd had the proper Alfa tool for the job) I found dishwashing liquid (won't damage plastic/rubber) helps a lot and dries solid.. But easy to undo again..

That ventline tube that goes to refill pipe.... the little tube the hose fits over is easy to break !!! go easy on it.. I had to drill out and fit/glue another tube fitting on mine because I knocked it off at some point.. Took as long as main job to fix properly...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
the o rings are not what I would call "tight" but they seat well in the groove around the fitting. Vaseline AKA slip and slide!! I'm thinking that when in the past the pump was swapped, the o ring on the pressure/white side was too big and they used it anyway. That or it swelled. I can't imagine them being 2 differing sizes. I checked the dia of the fittings where they ride as well as the hole the fit in - the brass top of the pump cover and they measure the same.

Mr Alistair, you recall if the big cap is regular thread? In other words, counter clockwise to loosen? I'm gonna hit Walter up for the tool.

Don't know if it "sorted" as there wasn't really any evidence of prior leakage around the white fitting. Just slight dampness, very slight. This is just something I noticed when removing it. The vent didn't give me any fits but thanks for the "experience". ciao chris
 

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Loosen is counter clockwise..

Unless you break something like I did, the fuel pump isn't too bad a part to work on. It all comes apart and fits together without to many headaches

Tip.... put down windows and open up the ski chute through to back seat and pin the boot side up for fresh air.. fumes can be a bit much otherwise..
 

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Discussion Starter #14
This morning i went and saw the junkyard chick. She has an 88 TS she was breaking and I thought she might have it still. She did and in it is a fuel pump. So we agreed on a price and the dude is pulling it sometime tomorrow and I'll collect it. I don't really care if it works or not as here's my plan. I'm gonna build it using as many new parts as I can lay hands on then when I pull Rossa' out, in with the new. This way the benchwork is done. Originally, it was worth the 15 bucks to me to have one "in hand" so I could see and figger/ponder on it. The the brain surgeon laying dormant in my head came up with the idea of building it.

I cant get ePer to "eP" so John was kind nuff to send me the page with the IPB, AND, the part numbers so I can begin the sourcing of the "bits". I'll find it interesting to see how different it is over here scrounging this stuff up.

So on the way home, we swung by the o ring vendor and I got 10. Luckily they weren't 400 euro but 39 euro cent or 45 cents for all 10. Greased up 2 of them and mounted to the pump and the car fired right up with no leaks. Compared to the 2 old ones, these were a snap to install much more pliable. Having the tank cover off allowed me to hear the pump and it is making a noise as described above. Not much compared to the sound from outside the car I hear from time to time but a noise nonetheless. I'd a let it run a bit to get hot and see what it did but it started re-raining. It has poured, all day. I mean call Noah and get him started finding timbers. maybe Mr Del has some hangin' out of his 164!!! So I'm waiting the new pump to be delivered, going to get the one from the junkyard chick and then will get to work. The chase is half the fun with these cars no? ciao chris
 

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"maybe Mr Del has some hangin' out of his 164!!!"

Nope, trunk closed, all fit inside.

For the 164 tanks, Alfa sure could have made access and removal/installation of the fuel pump easier, providing just a little larger dia hole in the tank.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
LOL, wait till you see what I post later on...ciao jc
 

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Discussion Starter #18
some pics

Often, I sit here reading and wonder "what is this stuff they are talking about". So I got the pump from the junkyard chick and tested it and it works well. Then I proceeded to take it apart and foto doc the process. I guess it took 40 minutes but i'm very careful to not break anything. But I did but no biggie as I can epoxy it back or JB Weld it as I understand it is fuel proof. So here we go:

1st is the pump assy. The bucket looking thing at the bottom is the basket and the pump sits inside of it. Sort of a mini reservoir so doing curves and fuel movement wont affect the fuel being picked up. This picture is oriented showing the basket pointed toward the front of the car - as it goes.

2nd is that bloody short hose that everyone talks about. Mines early and has just the one but I understand the US cars have more?

3rd is the soda straw often referred to. It's a vent down to the innards of the basket. Both the short hose and the top of this hose are not submerged as I define submerged in fuel. In the case of the top of this hose and the short hose, they reside in the upper most chamber of the tank that's full of vapors and the occasional splash.

4th is the pump outlet/banjo fitting. More next after I eat. ciao chris
 

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Discussion Starter #19
dinner was good

yummy. Not lobster but something called Mock Chuck steak and puree. Mashed taters back there.

So. Next is 5, the bottom of the basket. You can see the outline of the pad and can see the pad in the left upper of the pic. In the 3 holes go three push tabs that kind of secure the pad to the basket. The black hose is the return from the fuel rail. It unsnaps from the basket but at the bottom looks pressed in pretty good. Good enuff for me to not try and remove it. Opposing the end of the tube is a hole in the basket assy.

6 is looking down on the whole assy. Basket is toward the front of the car.

7 is the external wiring to the connector. Ruh roh!

8 is a side view showing the soda straw and upper assy. As Mr Alistair alluded to. This stuff doesn't get too wet normally.

9 is the metal strip joining the upper and lower assemblies. It is flimsier than I thought and the "tabs" that can be easily broken are visible. Ciao, chris
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
apart we come

10 is the tab on the flimsy strap being released. just push it inward and finagle the strap upward. Do the same for the opposing side.

11 is the return line where it attaches to the fitting in the cover. Also the "short hose" I'm getting ready to remove.

12 is the retaining nut for the flimsy metal strap. Remove it. You can see the wires going up thru a collar. this is a cap kind of thing and tightens a grommet holding the wires. The cap is very brittle and broke off. It still tightens but this is what I'll JB Weld

13 is the 2 assemblies somewhat apart. i did this to gain access to the short hose. I have stubby fingers.

14 is the short hose in the process of being removed. i had to cut it off in bits as who knows how long it's been on. No pliability at all and just nasty. hardest part so far. ciao, chris
 

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