did you try pushing the AFM open with the key on to see if the pump kicks on then?
Frustrated: Need rational advice!!
Hey Guys
I know Alfas can be frustrating... but I think my GTV6 has certainly taken the perverbial cake... I am convinced this car truly hates me!
Three weeks ago, I was fitting new brakes all around with new wheels and tires when I noticed that my fuel line from the tank to the pump was leaking. SO: I put the car away until I had time to fix it.
Today was my first opportunity to play with the GTV6 as my other alfas need some loving. I got up early, went to the parts store, purchased new fuel lines and started what seemed a simple job.
I started the car to check where the leak was coming from to be sure the length of hose... and besides the stream of fuel.. it ran nicely.
SO I pulled everything apart, changed the fuel lines, washed the gasoline from my arms and proceeded to start the car: YET NOTHING...
To be more specific, The engine turned over but did not fire. I started to go over the car and found that not only was the fuel pump not coming on, but there was no power at the terminals for the pump.
I checked the #5 and #8 fuses, and both were perfect, The fuel injectors were getting pulse, the AFM was engaging the Injection relay.. and I tried with two separate ECU's. Also, the inertia switch has been bypassed.
Any suggestions? I cannot seem to figure out why a car that was leaking fuel and running this morning is now not getting power to the fuel pump.
I need to see the light here: I am about to make this project a parts car...
Gentleman thank you for allowing my rant: Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Martin.
Stable:
1991 164 S
1981 GTV6
1971 1750 Spider
1987 Quad. Spider.
I know Alfas can be frustrating... but I think my GTV6 has certainly taken the perverbial cake... I am convinced this car truly hates me!
Three weeks ago, I was fitting new brakes all around with new wheels and tires when I noticed that my fuel line from the tank to the pump was leaking. SO: I put the car away until I had time to fix it.
Today was my first opportunity to play with the GTV6 as my other alfas need some loving. I got up early, went to the parts store, purchased new fuel lines and started what seemed a simple job.
I started the car to check where the leak was coming from to be sure the length of hose... and besides the stream of fuel.. it ran nicely.
SO I pulled everything apart, changed the fuel lines, washed the gasoline from my arms and proceeded to start the car: YET NOTHING...
To be more specific, The engine turned over but did not fire. I started to go over the car and found that not only was the fuel pump not coming on, but there was no power at the terminals for the pump.
I checked the #5 and #8 fuses, and both were perfect, The fuel injectors were getting pulse, the AFM was engaging the Injection relay.. and I tried with two separate ECU's. Also, the inertia switch has been bypassed.
Any suggestions? I cannot seem to figure out why a car that was leaking fuel and running this morning is now not getting power to the fuel pump.
I need to see the light here: I am about to make this project a parts car...
Gentleman thank you for allowing my rant: Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Martin.
Stable:
1991 164 S
1981 GTV6
1971 1750 Spider
1987 Quad. Spider.
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Trace the wiring back from the fuel pump, the insulation may have gotten brittle or worn away and is shorting out.
That would/should blow the fuses - but they are ok. Since there is no power at fuel pump it is probably ok (You had voltmeter on the terminals when someone was cranking car?). Check power to fuel pump at double relay in engine bay: +12v during cranking and engine running. On Milanos that's the pink-white wire - probably same color on GTV6. Somehow, replacing the fuel lines and the no-fuel are probably connected - too much of a coincidence... My guess is that the electrical connections/wires at the fuel pump got disturbed when you were pulling hoses off and put new ones on.Trace the wiring back from the fuel pump, the insulation may have gotten brittle or worn away and is shorting out.
Jes
Sounds like a disturbed wire, but a couple of really obvious thoughts:
There is fuel in the tank and at the pump intake right? When I did my fuel lines, I got a little excited (I blame the gas driping on me and my worklight.) and tried to put the pump back on backwards because of the loop the factory puts in the fuel feed to the pump.
Have you tried the pump without the rest of the car's wiring in the mix? Power it directly and see what happens.
There is fuel in the tank and at the pump intake right? When I did my fuel lines, I got a little excited (I blame the gas driping on me and my worklight.) and tried to put the pump back on backwards because of the loop the factory puts in the fuel feed to the pump.
Have you tried the pump without the rest of the car's wiring in the mix? Power it directly and see what happens.
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the advice, its been greatly appreciated. I tried jamming the AFM door open on two separate AFMs to see what happened and still nothing. I used the volt meter at the relay and have good power, but still nothing at the pump.
As for hooking it up manually, I had thought of that but in truth I was too afraid of sparking around the pump that had gasoline spraying all over it yesterday... but it is something to try after I have a chance to properly wipe things down.
Again, your help is greatly appreciated... This is why I drive Alfas
Cheers
Martin.
Thanks for the advice, its been greatly appreciated. I tried jamming the AFM door open on two separate AFMs to see what happened and still nothing. I used the volt meter at the relay and have good power, but still nothing at the pump.
As for hooking it up manually, I had thought of that but in truth I was too afraid of sparking around the pump that had gasoline spraying all over it yesterday... but it is something to try after I have a chance to properly wipe things down.
Again, your help is greatly appreciated... This is why I drive Alfas
Cheers
Martin.
Many times I've bought GTV6's that "didn't run", and all I did was take out the lower back seat, splice power to the pink wire that goes through the floor on pass side to pump. There seems to be a connection somewhere between the fuel pump relay and the pump that goes bad. I almost always just run this wire [from a terminal that is hot when key is "on". I once bought a 33,000 mile GTV6 that had sat for 10 years after the owner took it to several "mechanics", spent several thousand, and gave up when no one could make it run. I waited till the tow truck drove away, put my wire on and drove it!!
HeavyMetalAlfa,
I was thinking the same thing... Ie hooking the pump to an alternate "hot" power source. If I cant get it working with the original set up, where would be a good place to re-route power and what wires should I look for? Or did you run a new wire from the relay back?
Thanks again to every one!!!
Cheers
Martin.
I was thinking the same thing... Ie hooking the pump to an alternate "hot" power source. If I cant get it working with the original set up, where would be a good place to re-route power and what wires should I look for? Or did you run a new wire from the relay back?
Thanks again to every one!!!
Cheers
Martin.
I would suggest using the stock setup. It has safety features build-in that would otherwise be bypassed, e.g. shutting off fuel pump if engine stops for some reason (as in accident) - you really don't want the pump to continue running, spraying fuel. Since this no-power issue occured when you replaced the fuel lines it is likely to be close by the fuel pump, which you probably had to wiggle to get the old hoses off. Did you try moving the wires close by the pump and see if you get intermittent power? It could also be the ground wire to the pump (easy to verify with an ohm-meter on ground and the black wire to the pump).
Jes
Jes
Like Jes suggested, I'd vote for a bad ground. It would be easy to miss with all the gas you say you had splashing about.
I'd suggest making sure you didn't have ALL your gas run out on the floor, turn on the ignition, put a screwdriver in the air flow meter, then go check your ground and hot wires near the pump.
with good fuses and no pumping you have an open circut... either the hot is not connected on the way to the pump or there is no ground at the pump.
a test light is your friend here. Make sure the test light is grounded well and you should be able to check the whole system.
hth,
scott
I'd suggest making sure you didn't have ALL your gas run out on the floor, turn on the ignition, put a screwdriver in the air flow meter, then go check your ground and hot wires near the pump.
with good fuses and no pumping you have an open circut... either the hot is not connected on the way to the pump or there is no ground at the pump.
a test light is your friend here. Make sure the test light is grounded well and you should be able to check the whole system.
hth,
scott
Are your wires to pump different size terminals so you couldn't hook them up backwards? If they are the same size they are not Murphy proof.HeavyMetalAlfa,
I was thinking the same thing... Ie hooking the pump to an alternate "hot" power source. If I cant get it working with the original set up, where would be a good place to re-route power and what wires should I look for? Or did you run a new wire from the relay back?
Thanks again to every one!!!
Cheers
Martin.
Do you have power to either one with key in start position or with AFM flapper open enough to click combo relay?
Hey Steve,
The wires on the pump are Murphy proof, different sized nuts on each stud. The AFM does engage the injection relay, I can hear it click as I open the flap manually, also I get voltage on the pump line from the relay when the ignition is on, and the AFM is jammed open.
I am convinced that the wisdom of the group points to an electrical failure somewhere after the injection relay. Its possible that I pulled a wire loose or damaged the ground. I didnt unscrew the wires while working, I left the pump in its bracket deciding it was easier to scrape my knuckles than pull it down.
So my next task it to probe the wires for either a faulty ground, or a grounding positive line. In any case, I will be doing some rewiring.
Out of curiosity, Since I will have to take this apart again... has any one found a better way than stock to mount the fuel pump and filter? Its fairly awkward under there...
Cheers
Martin
The wires on the pump are Murphy proof, different sized nuts on each stud. The AFM does engage the injection relay, I can hear it click as I open the flap manually, also I get voltage on the pump line from the relay when the ignition is on, and the AFM is jammed open.
I am convinced that the wisdom of the group points to an electrical failure somewhere after the injection relay. Its possible that I pulled a wire loose or damaged the ground. I didnt unscrew the wires while working, I left the pump in its bracket deciding it was easier to scrape my knuckles than pull it down.
So my next task it to probe the wires for either a faulty ground, or a grounding positive line. In any case, I will be doing some rewiring.
Out of curiosity, Since I will have to take this apart again... has any one found a better way than stock to mount the fuel pump and filter? Its fairly awkward under there...
Cheers
Martin
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
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