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Discussion Starter #1
I'm re-installing my 69 1750 GTV's suspension and after reading a variety of posts with differing options/opinions I'm wondering what the initial factory method was. Was the lower pivot arm (dog bone) attached directly to the chassis or was it spaced out with a washer between the chassis and the dog bone? My parts manual shows one 2140.16530 washer/spacer used at each pivot arm attachment point. It looks from the diagram that it might go under the bolt head as a washer but it might go between the chassis and the pivot arm as a spacer, with attendant minor camber change. It does not look from the diagram that it goes under the nut as a washer. With the chassis removed from the diagram for clarity it's not clear to me. Am I placing too much faith in the parts diagrams? Which is correct??:confused:
Lower front suspension.jpg

I've borrowed a photo from another thread to try to illustrate the options.

front dogbone question.jpg

Also, if possible, does anyone know the correct thickness of this part (2140.16530)? Reading some other threads it looks like a 2140.16530 might be about 2.6 mm. thick and is the same the spacer that Papajam's information sheet (shown in a couple of different threads) shows to use to align the steering box.

Finally, is there an Alfa manual that crosses washer part numbers to size and thickness, or have I crossed over that fine line between the hobby zone and the twilight zone!!??:hammer:

Thanks for your help.
 

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Hi,
The pivot arm goes up against the chassis with no washer/spacer in-between. The washer in question is as you guess between bolt head and chassis.
The factory used a lot of "conical" washers, basically a thick/strong lock washer formed in a domed shape, that flattens out under high load. Much better than a split washer. They have a generic thickness, pretty much, depending on hole diameter, but of course this is all via DIN standards that I'm not familiar with in any sort of detail.
HTH
/Neil
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your response. Do you think the washer in question is one of those conical washers? Mine appeared to be simple flat washers when removed. (See photo) and it looks like I put them under the nut to show where they went. Do you think it matters? With the nyloc nut you wouldn't think they would use another sort of tensioning device.
 

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It's just a different style of lock-washer, in that it helps keep tension on the nut during vibration cycles (or something like that, no expert).
You'd have to remove the washer and look at it sideways to see the dome shape, it's not very tall. This example here for example shows 0.6mm of extra height from the dome shape, not more. That's about the same as some I have on hand here.
http://www.grainger.com/product/Conical-Washer-6FY80?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6FY49_AS01?$smthumb$

Addition: some places on the web seem to be equating conical washers with belleville washers. They're certainly similar, but I've always felt Belleville's were more extreme in their shape than the ones I'm referring to - not that I know anything....
 

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2140.16530 is a flat hard 10 mm washer 22mm in OD and 2.5 mm thick, according to the Alfa Catalogo Rapido
It is not a conical washer.

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Pivot arm attachment

Thanks for your responses. A couple of questions or at least interesting asides.

1. I was able to look at an unmolested 1974 GTV on the weekend and snap a few shots of the pivot arm attachment. The suspension was rough, dirty and access was limited but I've attached a couple of shots. They seem to confirm that there is no washer between the chassis and the dogbone or between the nut and the dogbone. I was not able to get a decent view of the bolt head area to see the washer under the bolt head. Pivot arm attachment 2c.jpg
Pivot arm attachment 1c.jpg Pivot arm attachment 3c.jpg

2. The version of Catalog Rapido that I have (1974 I think) shows the washer in question (#38) as 2140.16550 as opposed to 2140.16530 as in the parts manual. Are these the same washers? Is this typical? Also where in the catalog did you find sizes? I can't seem to find any??
Catalog Rapido 1974 front suspension0001.jpg Catalog Rapido 1974 front suspension0002.jpg confused:
 

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I suspect that 16550 is a typo.

The Catalogo Rapido is a summary of the standard parts ( nuts, bolts, washers, bearings, seals etc) available in the Alfa system at time of publication. It is not model specific.
The Rapido catalog has a more detailed description of the parts than the Mechanical Parts Catalog which you have.

My copy dates from May 1972.
It does not list 2140.116550.

Hopefully someone more familiar with GTVs can confirm.

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #8
@JKbartusek

I have the mechanical catalog as well as a reprint of the 74 rapido catalog. The last 2 shots were from the rapido catalog for 1974. Where did you find your dimensional info on the washer? As you can see there is no specific info on my pages that I can see. I also looked in the front and back and didn't find anything.
 

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I should have been more specific about the Rapido catalog I have; I did not realize that there was also one for the series models.

This is what I was referring to.

image.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Nuts and bolts

@JKbartusek

Wow!! And I didn't know that this one existed!! You have no idea how long I've been trying to find something like this and how many times I've asked on this BB if something like this existed, to no avail until your response!! So now I know what to look for!! Can't thank you enough. Now if I can only find one!! :detective:
 

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Joe,

Scan it, find somewhere to host it (might the guys at Duettoinfo.com be interested, I wonder?), and you would make many people very happy. Not least me. Are most of the descriptions bare (i.e. 'rondella' etc) or is there an index of sizes too? Writing as someone with far too many boxes of new, unlabelled LOBO fasteners than he would care to admit, any solid information would be very useful indeed.

Alex.
 

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Wow, thanks Ulrich. I didn't know that catalog existed, either. What a great piece of information.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Catalogo Rapido Normalizzati

Is there a place on the net where I can purchase or download a copy of the catalogo rapido normalizzati? (The one that details the nuts and bolts) I tried duettoinfo.com. They have a link (attached below) showing the cover of it but that seems to be the extent of it (I can't seem to download it). Any help would be much appreciated.
 

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