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Discussion Starter #1
Passenger seat has a nasty split in my 164, but the electric traveler doesn't work, and it's stuck all the way back. I do have some switches coming,
but am hedging my bets that they won't solve the problem. Thing is, the rear bolts are way hidden under the rear of the seat and I can't get at them. Anyone got another way to get a front seat out? It's the bum-sit, not the back that has the split. With the nasty cold spell we are in, I'm reluctant to crank on anything too hard,
but thought maybe the bottom pops out somehow.....some do have a way of releasing.
Thanx!
 

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You can try the small hammer tapping trick on the rounded case of the seat motors while rocking the switches.
Do either seat move in any positions? If neither seat any position works yellow 20 amp seat power switch inside dash area to right of ignition could be bad. It is located in amongst the 6 or 7 relays found there with fuse panel door open.

Also check/jiggle wiring connectors under seat while rocking switches, too.

Seat bottom removal requires turning seat up side down to access "hog nose" rings to spread and remove about 12 and to untie two cotton hold down ribbons that pull foam and padding into steel frame, Leather sides have metal rods that hook side to frames. To separate leather from foam cushion and heating pad requires more work to remove more hog nose ring staples and more wire rods.
See this story board: https://www.alfabb.com/threads/my-164-upholstery-101-project.504138/#post-6957922
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Drivers seat works fine, passenger only seat back works.
Switch checks out too. I’m not great at electrical stuff, but will try to find voltage to the switch. Can feel a connector under seat that’s not connected, but I cannot find where or if it’s supposed to be. I am old and don’t bend well! Was hoping there’s a method for a failed motor, but will try tapping and wiggles. Thanx heaps.
 

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I just went through the same thing. A dead motor on the passenger seat, with the seat stuck in the rear most position. I literally spend hours removing all the mounting bolts for both electric motors under the seat and removing all the "c-clips" on the cross shafts. The Alfa 164 Repair Manual from the factory is not exactly accurate (or truthful) concerning everything that needs to be done in order to remove a stuck seat. I had to lift the seat bottom and hold it up with a piece of wood braced in the mechanism so I had enough access to loosen and remove all the myriad 10mm bolts and fittings that hold the seat motors and seat frame in place. It ranks up there with replacing the stepper motors in terms of the time and frustration factor.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Oh joy.
I’m beginning to think of finding a way to fix the split seam without taking the seat out.
Seem to remember seeing something about curved needles....
 

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Did you really try Steve Alfisto's advice? This is a typical motor problem of the 164, for the commutator to end up in a dead position. The trick is to whap the motor simultaneously with pressing the rocker button, my B model used to do it all the time, I kept a screwdriver under the seat precisely to whap the motor with the plastic handle. Never failed to wake up the motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
After wiggles. And taps I got the up/ down to work, seat back always has.
I see 2 motors, running longitudinal, door and tunnnel side. Which of these does what?....and is there a 3rd that does fore and aft ?
 

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After wiggles. And taps I got the up/ down to work, seat back always has.
I see 2 motors, running longitudinal, door and tunnnel side. Which of these does what?....and is there a 3rd that does fore and aft ?
Run the up down switch and feel what motor is moving. then frap the other one while rocking fore/aft switch, Third motor for back is hidden in seat back. Leave seat bottom up if you get it to run forward so it will travel forward easier against tunnel side molding.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
With all your suggestions, I got the motor to move, a few times. Kinda random when it did, so couldn’t isolate the wire or connector tha might be loose.
However, as the neighborhood got quiet, I could hear the motor “ cooking” when I hit the switch. So there’s that. Where can I find a part number listing... can’t make out anything on the motor ‘ crept what looks like a Bosch sticker. This is passenger side, door side , fore and back motor. Cheers guys. Y’all been great help.
 

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Wonder if you have something jammed in the seat tracks binding seat movement? Check for something like an old ball point pen carcass jammed in the track next to center console. Since up switch works raise seat full up so you can access item 15 motor 60511069 and item 3 60801589 driveshafts item 9 60510026 circlips.. Remove circlips and slide driveshaft off motor shaft splines. Now see if you can slide seat forward. I just noticed this is a driver's seat so maybe item 1 60806800 is fore aft motor and driveshaft item 4 is the one you have to remove circlips from.
1574239050597.png
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Will check the tracks, but the motor works randomly, and when it does, it's very smooth, and in both directions. When it doesn't work, which is most of the times I push the button, I can hear a little crackling in it. Lots of wire wiggling doesn't seem to isolate a problem, and tapping may be helping it move.....and when it moves, it keeps moving for as long as I stay on the switch.....if I let off, it stops,, and I start tapping and wiggling wires......a few minutes and it will go again. So I'm pretty sure it's the motor. So...if you can be sure of a part #, I found a couple in the UK.....I'm in Canada, so wanna get this right first time!
Its the outside,door side, of passenger seat...so right hand side of car.
Oh ya...I've got 3 witches I've rotated thru the process, and all behave the same.
90% sure it's the motor.
Thanx heaps
 

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Will check the tracks, but the motor works randomly, and when it does, it's very smooth, and in both directions. When it doesn't work, which is most of the times I push the button, I can hear a little crackling in it. Lots of wire wiggling doesn't seem to isolate a problem, and tapping may be helping it move.....and when it moves, it keeps moving for as long as I stay on the switch.....if I let off, it stops,, and I start tapping and wiggling wires......a few minutes and it will go again. So I'm pretty sure it's the motor. So...if you can be sure of a part #, I found a couple in the UK.....I'm in Canada, so wanna get this right first time!
Its the outside,door side, of passenger seat...so right hand side of car.
Oh ya...I've got 3 witches I've rotated thru the process, and all behave the same.
90% sure it's the motor.
Thanx heaps
OK fore aft motor is item 15 60511069.
 

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Here are some picture of under side of passenger seat showing motors. If you can get seat to move forward remove rear mounting to floor bolts with a 6mm allen head in a socket wrench and a ratchet. The run seat all the way to the rear to remove front bolts. I doubt the motor is bad. DO you have the extra 60897423 blue or black add on control box called for by tech bulletin 40-91.02? The box maybe stuffed inside front flap of seat bottom upholstery or inside carpet hump
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PB190326.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Found the problem.
Got seat out, leather off, and fou
Will check the tracks, but the motor works randomly, and when it does, it's very smooth, and in both directions. When it doesn't work, which is most of the times I push the button, I can hear a little crackling in it. Lots of wire wiggling doesn't seem to isolate a problem, and tapping may be helping it move.....and when it moves, it keeps moving for as long as I stay on the switch.....if I let off, it stops,, and I start tapping and wiggling wires......a few minutes and it will go again. So I'm pretty sure it's the motor. So...if you can be sure of a part #, I found a couple in the UK.....I'm in Canada, so wanna get this right first time!
Its the outside,door side, of passenger seat...so right hand side of car.
Oh ya...I've got 3 witches I've rotated thru the process, and all behave the same.
90% sure it's the motor.
Thanx heaps
nd a break in wire right at a zip tie...that’s in a really stupid place.....and motor works great. Crazy job just the get that far, bolts in dumb recesses....sure y’all have heard it men’s time!
Thanx all..
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Oops...cold iPad not working so good.
I’m feeling a tad guilty for all the effort involved, but after leather came off, found split
wire at a zip tie that is in dumb place. Motor is fine, fingers not!
Thanx everyone. Most appreciated.
 

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I do have some spare 60897423 control boxes here in Florida not sure how much it would cost to ship one to CDN though.
 

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Don't ya love it when it works. I had to fix my 164S BB2 passenger seat up/dwn motor wiring today, too. Both green and black wires the male spade ends locking tabs would not lock them into connector so they both had come out of female connectors. Don't you hate when that happens?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Don't ya love it when it works. I had to fix my 164S BB2 passenger seat up/dwn motor wiring today, too. Both green and black wires the male spade ends locking tabs would not lock them into connector so they both had come out of female connectors. Don't you hate when that happens?
I think over the years, I’ve broken about 25% of those **** tabs. It’s a flaw of the entire industry. Maybe Aston Martins and Rolls have better ones....but seriously doubt it.
I do have some spare 60897423 control boxes here in Florida not sure how much it would cost to ship one to CDN though.
I do not have that control box. What is it supposed to do for me? Happy to get it if you think it's a good idea. I might have a connection at the switch that's a little suspect....it's still running randomly when wired in, but on bench alone,hooked to battery, motor worked every time.
 

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If you seat motors work you don't need it. Adding the control box seems to correct most of the random operation of switches and motors.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If you seat motors work you don't need it. Adding the control box seems to correct most of the random operation of switches and motors.
So that’s what ive got... random operation. Ill fiddle around with the connection, tho not really expected to solve it. Then maybe i should try the box ? Thanx.
 
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