[GTVguy]

i'm looking for inexpensive and bolt on brake upgrade for my '74 GTV2000

I found this last night thread and am trying to pull it to the GT Tech area

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/suspension-brakes-wheels-tires/12377-big-brakes.html

Partially recapping the thread i get this:
To maintain vintage-ness -->
a) VW transporter calipers / GTV solid rotors
b) VW transporter calipers / vented rotors (Italcarguy - what rotors???)
c) BMW tii calipers /

Ignoring Vintage-ness
a) Milano brembo calipers / montreal vented rotors
b) Performtek calipers / matching rotors
c) Milano Brembo calipers / Tom Sahine's rotors (ala Gary W)
d) bmw 733 caliper /

My first choice is VW caliper / vented rotors. my questions:
- what's the vented rotor (italcarguy, et. al., is there a part number?)
- is this a bolt on?
- if i don't change the rears will it mess up my bias?
- also, for vented, do i need special pads?

thanks

 

[rockiemosley]

Bump, anybody know?

 

[alfaparticle]

I am planning to install aluminum Brembos on my Spider. I am doing it to save weight. The brake pads are the same size so there is unlikely to be any change in brake performance. My understanding is that the VW calipers are very heavy.
I was also advised by the racing guys that vented rotors are only an advantage on the track.

 

[jcslocum]

I have these to install this winter. Maybe in the next month or so.

 

[alfaparticle]

Hi Jon,
Nice looking brakes. Is this car going to be driven on the track?

 

[jcslocum]

Hi Jon,
Nice looking brakes. Is this car going to be driven on the track?

We will see. It's a possibility but I like to ride my bikes on the track. Vintage bikes, vintage cars. It's all good!

 

[jamieandthemagi]

back to gtv guys posting, id be interested in this too. but ive a 1971 gtj, so I belive id have to change the uprights...........is this true?

 

[GTV4EVR]

i'm looking for inexpensive and bolt on brake upgrade for my '74 GTV2000
thanks

Have you tried just upgrading the pads and leaving everything else alone? There are a lot of racing GTVs with the stock brakes and they work just fine. (many of the vintage organizations don't allow any of the changes you are suggesting)

 

[ECARRILLO]

i'm looking for inexpensive and bolt on brake upgrade for my '74 GTV2000

I found this last night thread and am trying to pull it to the GT Tech area

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/suspension-brakes-wheels-tires/12377-big-brakes.html

Partially recapping the thread i get this:
To maintain vintage-ness -->
a) VW transporter calipers / GTV solid rotors
b) VW transporter calipers / vented rotors (Italcarguy - what rotors???)
c) BMW tii calipers /

Ignoring Vintage-ness
a) Milano brembo calipers / montreal vented rotors
b) Performtek calipers / matching rotors
c) Milano Brembo calipers / Tom Sahine's rotors (ala Gary W)
d) bmw 733 caliper /

My first choice is VW caliper / vented rotors. my questions:
- what's the vented rotor (italcarguy, et. al., is there a part number?)
- is this a bolt on?
- if i don't change the rears will it mess up my bias?
- also, for vented, do i need special pads?

thanks

GTVguy,

Your A option with the bug calipers is a bolt on and does not affect the bias. If you have a street car, I would say this is a good upgrade and somewhat inexpensive. Rotors are a good upgrade as well. I like the ones from Centerline BR202 and BR203.

Something else to consider is pads. I am using Carbotech in the race car and love them! You can get a street version and they work just fine. Now, understand that brake performance comes with noise. These are just the ones I like, any other wold work fine as well. Performateck has pads.

Make sure you bead them both from new per the instructions, it will help performance and life.

If you want to go with option B, call performateck, they can guide you on the Outlaw callers, tarox rotors and Carbotech pads.

Good braking!

 

[alfaparticle]

Your A option with the bug calipers is a bolt on and does not affect the bias. If you have a street car, I would say this is a good upgrade and somewhat inexpensive.

That is fine if you are OK with the adverse effect on handling due to more un-sprung weight.

 

[genericwood]

Your A option with the bug calipers is a bolt on and does not affect the bias.

Guess I would have to disagree with my friend Eliseo on this one (even though he is a brake systems engineer)! The VW Bus calipers may have the same pad area, but they have a larger diameter piston. That will move the bias to the front without corresponding changes to the rear.

Personally, I don't see the need to upgrade the brakes on a street GTV. Mine is stock and the brakes are fantastic! I have run it in several track days, and it does great with dual purpose pads. No fade, great feel, and enough power to lock everything up if you want to. My race GTV runs aftermarket calipers on stock type rotors, but that is only to reduce unsprung weight.

 

[ECARRILLO]

Ok, let's get technical here......well no need.

If you take into account the gain obtained with the bug calipers, and consider, a stock GTV, springs, shocks, suspension bushings, booster, brake fluid, hoses, tires, road, etc...etc..etc.., there is not that big of a difference - in brake bias. I have done it in a couple of cars and did feel the improvement on the calipers, but did not find any issue with the bias. Remember you are adding brake power to the front of the car, not to the rear - that may increase the instability (loosing the rear end) of the car.

But that is just my opinion....

It would be a good project to do all the math. Now, when I have done all the math, measured as much as I can and reproduce the conditions for testing - there is always the man factor. The opinion of the individual behind the pedal is the most important and that can be a significant variable.

And I forgot to mention brake fluid. Replace it fully with new one of good quality. I like the Ate blue.

So my friend: I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

I do agree with the pad note: a good set of pads might just do the job.

See you at the track Mr. Wood!

 

[genericwood]

I think Eliseo is saying that he isn't a good enough driver to detect the difference that the laws of physics say must exist!

 

[gtv27]

While a bit more front bias is not a bad thing for a 105 as they tend to lock up the rears first in stock configuration, there is really only a need for caliper and disc conversions in serious race applications. On the street, or even for light duty sprints, autocross or racing, the standard parts, properly maintained with correct pads is fine.

In regard to the latter, standard ATE OEM spec pads are really very good for street use as they work immediately and require quite high temps to induce pad fade. It that is happening (eg for track days, sprints or very aggressive mountain road driving) Ferodo DS 2500 are a well known alternative. They do require a bit of heat to work really well, but will still pull up OK when dead cold.

If you are pad fading DS 2500 then you can go to DS 3000 or more likely, look at rotor cooling options by ducting air and going to vented rotors. If the latter, then a caliper conversion makes some sense - the big 4 pot ATE calipers used on the BMW 7 series are ideal (we have done this on our racing 105). This is massive overkill for a street car, even for a lot of race cars, but does look cool!

 

[ECARRILLO]

I think Eliseo is saying that he isn't a good enough driver to detect the difference that the laws of physics say must exist!

BUSTED, I like the plain honesty!

 

[genericwood]

BUSTED, I like the plain honesty!

Of course I conveniently neglected to mention that you thoroughly kicked my tail last time we met on the track!

Now back to the brake discussion. Even though I think the stock brakes are very good, one option that hasn't been discussed is the Outlaw caliper conversion from Performatek. The kit uses Outlaw 2800 4-piston aluminum front calipers and Outlaw 1000 calipers on the rear. Used together, they maintain brake balance, reduce unsprung weight and get rid of heat better than stock.