[Biba69]

iachella, apparently the trick is to use 'wobbly' bolts if they're 4 x 100. Did you have to raise the car up so that the tires won't hit the fender edges? They're really out there, but do look good.

I'll have to check into what I can find and you're right, the price is great - more than makes up for the shipping charge.

 

[iachella]

Wobbly nuts in our case. I had heard about them at the time, but could not located them. This was about 8 years ago. I just brought them to a wheel machinist nearby and he did them all for less than $150. As long as there is a machinist nearby, I will always chose to drill them to 98mm. If I remember a discussion few months ago, 16 wobbly nuts run close to $100 anyway.

They actually don't extend beyond the body of the car amazingly. They look quite right, in fact. My car is even lowered and all is well.

I am still looking into finding a wheel casting place to copy these and make them into 4x98 and 5x98 (or blanks) in a 15x6.5 (or 16) with the proper hub bore and an offset of say, 20-25mm. Just a dream but could come true one day.

 

[Biba69]

Yeah, the wobbly bolts are expensive. My Cromodora's are 22mm offset, but you probably knew that. Even though most would prefer 14", you might be surprised to find a fair amount of Fiat owner's buying the wheels should you go with the idea.

Not the place for it, but I truly dislike virtually all of the modern wheels. Most all look so spidery. Years ago 16" or taller wheels/tires were standard. Then 'they' went down to little bitty (think original Mini, though the extreme) wheels and the pendulum has now swung back to 'how High can we make them'?

 

[Biba69]

Okay, though I've sent the money, the deal still might fall through. Assuming they do arrive, the wheels are Alfa 145 4 x 98 stud 15" x 6.5" with an offset of 40 mm. My plan is to get Milano front discs and calipers.

Question: Since I'm sure I'll need fairly thick spacers, am I better off getting ones with 5 x 98 holes, with 4 x 98 studs, or re-drill the hub as Richard suggested to 4 x 98 so I could then more easily get the offset I want (as far out as possible without rubbing - front rear). Yes, studs will need to be sized to fit.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a good source for wheel studs in various lengths, which fit 'our' wheels/hubs, and are of high quality?

 

[alfettaparts]

Biba.
For the rear you will find wheel studs on ebay. You need to know the nurl size and thread pitch that you require. To fit the rear studs you will need to remove the hubs and hence replace the rear wheel bearings.

The front is a little more complicated because the disc holds the studs. You can still press a nurl into the disc if you get the rite interference fit. I have high tensile bolts held on with a aluminum plate at the front.

One problem I'm having is my wheels no longer locate on the centre of the hub. If you use spacers you will need to have some made that locate the rim onto the hub other wise you can never perfectly centre the wheel. The studs alone are not enough to centre the wheel. You need the rim to locate on the hub.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[iachella]

From what I've heard from racers is that Alfa doesn't hub center their wheels. Studs with cone shaped wheel holes are sufficient to locate the wheel. For the later FWD models we did not get in the US, the story could be different.

 

[ToonRboy]

I have high tensile bolts held on with a aluminum plate at the front.

One problem I'm having is my wheels no longer locate on the centre of the hub.

That's because your adapter isn't hub-centric. I suspect that those wheels Iachella has aren't either. Biba, I don't know how you can expect to have good braking when your Master Cylinder is leaking. I don't care if you put M3 brakes on there, it won't stop fer shiite w/leaking M/C.

If you're buying 15" 4x98 wheels, stick with the Alfetta hubs. Wait until the wheels show-up and see how things go. Most likely the centerbore of the wheels will be too small for your hubs, but you can fit them loosely and take some measurements. Order some QUALITY wheel adapters (spacers w/integral studs) in the thickness you want to get the look you're after with PROPER bore size on the back and a PROPER hub lip on the front - in 4x98mm.

That way you don't have to go drilling your hubs or boring-out the wheels. Too much to go wrong. Unless you just wanna look at the car while it's parked. In that case, do what these fellers did.

 

[alfettaparts]

That's because your adapter isn't hub-centric. I suspect that those wheels Iachella has aren't either.

Yeah, thats what I was trying to say

 

[ToonRboy]

Hey Alfettaparts, you have a georgeous car there (and good looking choice of wrong sized rims), you really should call Charlie and order the right adapters for it - so you can drive real fast without needing a liver transplant!
Hub Adapters and Spacers - Home
I only mention Serpent Autosport because they are the only shop that makes quality adapters and spacers in NA that I know of. Yes, they're not cheap, but you chose the wheels after all...

 

[alfettaparts]

wheel adaptors

ToonRboy

Thanks for that link. They are exactly what I need for the front. I don't think they are expensive. I couldn't have them made locally for that price.
Cheers.

 

[Biba69]

I just received the tracking number for my 'new' wheels. It turns out that they take wheel bolts, rather than studs. I had them throw in a set of four so I know what they look like. I definitely want studs if at all possible.In my earlier Fiat days I hated struggling to put on the much smaller tires using bolts.

Two things concern me regarding redrilling the Milano hubs: If the holes aren't absolutely precisely drilled, the wheels will be out of round. Secondly, since the 5 x 98/4 x 98 openings holes will be so close one another, it seems to me that the four holes should be welded up, then machined down.

Comments? And the name of someone/shop that has done this with good results?

Not having done this before it seems to me that after the hub's bores machined to 60 mm and tires mounted, is to mount a front and rear tire, have a huge bunch of washers or cut tubes, then move the wheels out as far as possible and I'm satisfied that the tires won't hit. Figuring in jounce will be pretty much of a guess other than bouncing the front down. Then measure the depth of the washers and have spacers made.

 

[Biba69]

For anyone still following this, Charlie DiMarco has my order for four 20 mm spacers, 4 x 98, with a 'lip' of 58.6 mm to coincide with the outer lip for the Teledials, along with 16 - 65 mm splined wheels studs. Fingers crossed, but should end up with the wheels within a few mm's of where the 5-Stars were.

Also ordered complete Milano front brakes, from and including, the spindles out.

Guess I also have to get tires.

 

[ToonRboy]

Biba, the wheels don't know whether you use bolts or studs. It's the hub/rotor design. The stock GTV6 has the studs incorporated into the rotor.

Obviously, if you want to use a spacer of 20mm or so, you can run out of stud length for your lug nuts to grab on to. Hubs/Rotors that use lug bolts, have threaded holes in them (instead of studs). This makes fitting custom wheels (which come in varying thicknesses) and adding spacers an easy proposition - just buy longer bolts. No removing hubs, bearings, and pressing out/in studs (e.g. labor co$ts - and once you've got longer studs on there, reverting to the stock wheels makes you car a chariot or a James Bond can opener). However, last winter I saw a guy in a VW (that used wheel bolts) trying to change-out a flat tire and it was not pretty. I had to give him a hand to get the first bolt started. Apparently, one needs a mighty left arm to hold the spare in place while blindly seeking the bolt hole with the right - I suggested to him "try closing your eyes"...

 

[Biba69]

ToonRboy, Since I owned a very good handful of Fiats in my past - all had bolt on wheels - I wouldn't even consider them (bolts). Actually the splined studs arrived today, though won't need them for a bit. Dropped off the wheels today for sandblasting. Yes, they will require a fair amount of fettling + painting. That is why JB-Weld was invented - for de-curb rashing. Not for the first time I've used JB-Weld as a sculpting medium.

 

[86spider]

My Volvo 850 had a pin that stuck out of the rotor. hang the wheel on that to pivot the wheel to line up a bolt hole. I can see how it would be more of a pita to do without it.

 

[ToonRboy]

Dropped off the wheels today for sandblasting. Yes, they will require a fair amount of fettling + painting.

Where's the pics? Don't tell me you're not going to do a "before and after" Mr. restoration?!

 

[Biba69]

Mr. Restoration wasn't actually planning on doing a before and after show-and-tell, but can. Shoot, they're just some old wheels with old man's tires, and some old Milano parts.

Geeze, if I have to document it I guess I have to get the drilled and slotted discs which will mean one more thing to weld and have drilled out.

 

[Alfaguy35]

We ran Milano/GTV6 vented front rotors on our Lemons Alfetta. We just redrilled the rotors to 4 x 98 using one of the existing holes as the first hole and then drilled three more. We did it on a CNC mill so we knew the holes were in the right location. Don't worry about welding the original 5 X 98 holes as the rotor is cast iron and would probably warp the center where the studs go from all the heat from welding. We have three races on this set up and haven't had any issuses with the rotors.

I wouldn't go to a slotted and drilled rotor. Think of the holes in the rotor as a cheese grater and the brake pads as the cheese. We had slotted and drilled rotors on the Lemons car and we couldn't get a day out of a set of pads, it would just tear them up. Went to a Milano/GTV6 rotor with air cooling it and now we're on the third race on the same set of pads and they still have better then 60% pad left and one of those races was the full 24 hour at Reno.

 

[Biba69]

But Wes, the drilled and slotted brake discs look so cool since the five holes on the 'new' wheels give a nice view of the discs and calipers.

Yeah, I've read just what you said, but have read that discs with a 'few' slots isn't a bad thing. But most likely I'll take your advice and go with the stock type of disc.

I'm a bit confused, are you willing to weld, machine down the hubs and re-drill? If I can get a fairly quick (I know you're a busy guy) turn-around I'd really appreciate your doing this for me. This aspect of the brakes/new wheels has really concerned me since I was aware that if the drilling is even a tiny smidgen off the wheels will always be out of 'sync'/round.

Perhaps you read that I have the 20 mm spacers (the wheels are a 40 mm offset) on order from Charlie DiMarco, so I'm sure that they'll line up perfectly with the re-drilled hubs. I've already received the longer 16 wheel studs from him. If you do this for me, should I send them along?

 

[ToonRboy]

Two things concern me regarding redrilling the Milano hubs: If the holes aren't absolutely precisely drilled, the wheels will be out of round. Secondly, since the 5 x 98/4 x 98 openings holes will be so close one another, it seems to me that the four holes should be welded up, then machined down.

I reckon it's time to harp on the wheel stuff again. Biba, you being a fella who drives Alfetta GT as a daily driver, I just have to tip my hat. Since you're going with the Milano set-up in front I can only assume where talking about the rear here. Whether you drill or not, the wheel studs should not be what center the wheel (though we talked about this already w/Alfettaparts) The HUB is what centers the wheel AND takes the loads. Case in point. This 16"x7", 5x100 rim has a 73mm bore.

Aftermarket wheels usually have bigger-than-necessary bore so that they'll fit many different cars. however, they require the use of Hub Centric Centering Rings to be safe.

If you look back at the first pic (white arrow), you'll see that the machinist started to drill these 5x100 rims to 5x98. He stopped. The wall between the bore and the stud holes became too thin and most likely would crack. Put enough load on it and you'll be likely to ruin yours or someone elses day.

The solution in this case? Use the proper hub-centric rings, and wobble bolts. Works like a charm. Her'es a pic with the centering ring dropped-in so you get the picture. If it weren't there, then the studs would bear the load and you would most likely be off-center so that high speed would be dangerous (and like driving a chuck-wagon across the Chisum trail!).

Rather than having to pull your hubs, remove existing studs (so you can use your 20mm spacer), press-in longer ones, then drill-out the wheels to fit 4x98, Why didn't you just order 20 or 25mm Wheel Adapters?

In 20mm the existing studs and nuts would protrude from the adapter, so you would have to make sure the wheel has cavities in the back to accomodate. Most do.

Note that the wheel adapter also has a protruding lip (hub) to fit the wheel bore that you plan to fit. The lugs job is to clamp it on.