[Biba69]

I'm being somewhat research lazy here, but would like to know if anyone has installed 'aftermarket' front calipers on their Alfetta GT - and it was not only plug and play, but had considerably better clamping power?

For those not in the US, to us, all Alfetta GT's have 2000 four cylinders. This means that it does not have a ventilated rotor, so the caliper needs to have an appropriate sized opening for the disc.

I don't want to make brackets nor have custom made spacers for the caliper. I'm not saying cost is no object, but if there is enough of an improvement in stopping power so that the caliper is well worth the cost, I'm fine with that.

I'll add that they have to fit inside 14" 5-star wheels.

 

[Biba69]

I was hoping to hear that someone has bought some terrific front calipers which fit the Alfetta GT's mounting points (or take little to make them fit) , have a much larger pad surface, and are either four or six pots - and of course the silhouette is narrow enough to fit inside my 14" Cromodora 5-Stars. Aluminum one's would also be nice. Wouldn't be inexpensive, but an easy upgrade.

It seems as if the modern fairly expensive calipers seem to be considerably more compact.

I prefer to stick with non-vented rotors - though might change my mind on this. In that vein, are any of the different version Alfetta rotors being sold new on eBay worth the money? They're something like $360 a pair.

 

[Biba69]

I've always heard that if you can lock up your brakes, then why bother upgrading?

When I got my Alfetta GT, I thought the car stopped very well. Sometime later, when I got a GTV6, I was really knocked out by the brakes, especially in light of a much heavier front end.

The calipers in the GTV6 were pressing up against steel rotors. The calipers are larger than the Alfetta's and in my very backyard engineering/physics thinking, up to a point a larger stopping surface - especially if there is an even pressure across it - is going to stop faster and more efficiently...every time. I'm totally leaving brake fade out of this since I have no plans to put the Alfetta on a track (though I did with the GTV6).

I agree with you, Richard, in that I do need to install a fresh set of tires on the car. I also agree that the rear brakes are marginal, but I'd like to start with upgrading the fronts first. Very little choice in 14" tires unfortunately. Guys in Europe suggest tires, so might end up importing a set. Anyone have any experience with Vredestein's (yes, available in the US) on a 116?

I've been using Centerlines standard brake pads which seem to work well - especially since they neither leave much pad dust, nor do they seem to wear the discs down. I have used more aggressive pads in the past but they took some warming up and really put a groove in the discs - though it did mean they were doing their job.

I didn't find anything for the Alfetta GT, brake wise, on Performatek's website.

I really appreciate the input and realize the consensus is that the Alfetta calipers are fine, use some more aggressive pads, new tires, and that should be good enough. Unfortunately, not for me.

 

[Biba69]

Brian, you are correct and as it is, I have Milano (different from the GTV6's) uprights (machined Alfetta hubs for the larger bearings) on the front so it would be an easy switch - though not for the rear. And then there is the wheel situation to be taken care of. I'll add that I don't want to go to wider tires. I have 195/65-14's on it now.

 

[Biba69]

Brian, I actually have another thread going on this very subject. The two sizes of Alfetta MC's are 20 and 22 mm. I'm using an ATE 20 mm MC, but it is, as well as the last one, apparently N(Very)OS. The last one (literally - as in no more ATE 20 mm's) was installed two months ago and is slowly leaking. The cost was $195-. I'm trying to find out the best grit for a Flex-Hone in a (both should have almost perfect bores) and whether 240 would be best and whether it should be silicon carbide or aluminum oxide.

Any ideas on this? I've not had particularly good luck with the no name MC's - but feel the ATE's are worth rebuilding. I have a 22 mm Flex Hone but no idea which 'ingredients' it is or should be. I've rebuilt a few clutch and brake MC's years ago and they worked fine. I'm very sure that neither will need to be re-sleeved - or else I'd send the loose one out. IAP has 20 mm ATE rebuild kits.

 

[Biba69]

J. S., my calipers are pretty close to the inside of the Cromodora 5-Stars, but not sure what the disc diameter is.

I've been looking around at the wheels that are on 'modern' European Alfa's since many have a 4 x 98 bolt pattern. Unfortunately the ones I like am pretty sure they're only available in a 17" wheel. 16" would be okay.

Meaning, if I could get a wheel I like as well as the 5-Stars, I'd then go up in size on the front discs, and get calipers to fit. True, would break my piggy bank, but at least worth checking out.

 

[Biba69]

Stefano, boy would I like to have those wheels, but would much prefer a 15 x 6. Where did you get them? eBay? Also, definitely room for larger discs and calipers.

 

[Biba69]

iachella, apparently the trick is to use 'wobbly' bolts if they're 4 x 100. Did you have to raise the car up so that the tires won't hit the fender edges? They're really out there, but do look good.

I'll have to check into what I can find and you're right, the price is great - more than makes up for the shipping charge.

 

[Biba69]

Yeah, the wobbly bolts are expensive. My Cromodora's are 22mm offset, but you probably knew that. Even though most would prefer 14", you might be surprised to find a fair amount of Fiat owner's buying the wheels should you go with the idea.

Not the place for it, but I truly dislike virtually all of the modern wheels. Most all look so spidery. Years ago 16" or taller wheels/tires were standard. Then 'they' went down to little bitty (think original Mini, though the extreme) wheels and the pendulum has now swung back to 'how High can we make them'?

 

[Biba69]

Okay, though I've sent the money, the deal still might fall through. Assuming they do arrive, the wheels are Alfa 145 4 x 98 stud 15" x 6.5" with an offset of 40 mm. My plan is to get Milano front discs and calipers.

Question: Since I'm sure I'll need fairly thick spacers, am I better off getting ones with 5 x 98 holes, with 4 x 98 studs, or re-drill the hub as Richard suggested to 4 x 98 so I could then more easily get the offset I want (as far out as possible without rubbing - front rear). Yes, studs will need to be sized to fit.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a good source for wheel studs in various lengths, which fit 'our' wheels/hubs, and are of high quality?

 

[Biba69]

I just received the tracking number for my 'new' wheels. It turns out that they take wheel bolts, rather than studs. I had them throw in a set of four so I know what they look like. I definitely want studs if at all possible.In my earlier Fiat days I hated struggling to put on the much smaller tires using bolts.

Two things concern me regarding redrilling the Milano hubs: If the holes aren't absolutely precisely drilled, the wheels will be out of round. Secondly, since the 5 x 98/4 x 98 openings holes will be so close one another, it seems to me that the four holes should be welded up, then machined down.

Comments? And the name of someone/shop that has done this with good results?

Not having done this before it seems to me that after the hub's bores machined to 60 mm and tires mounted, is to mount a front and rear tire, have a huge bunch of washers or cut tubes, then move the wheels out as far as possible and I'm satisfied that the tires won't hit. Figuring in jounce will be pretty much of a guess other than bouncing the front down. Then measure the depth of the washers and have spacers made.

 

[Biba69]

For anyone still following this, Charlie DiMarco has my order for four 20 mm spacers, 4 x 98, with a 'lip' of 58.6 mm to coincide with the outer lip for the Teledials, along with 16 - 65 mm splined wheels studs. Fingers crossed, but should end up with the wheels within a few mm's of where the 5-Stars were.

Also ordered complete Milano front brakes, from and including, the spindles out.

Guess I also have to get tires.

 

[Biba69]

ToonRboy, Since I owned a very good handful of Fiats in my past - all had bolt on wheels - I wouldn't even consider them (bolts). Actually the splined studs arrived today, though won't need them for a bit. Dropped off the wheels today for sandblasting. Yes, they will require a fair amount of fettling + painting. That is why JB-Weld was invented - for de-curb rashing. Not for the first time I've used JB-Weld as a sculpting medium.

 

[Biba69]

Mr. Restoration wasn't actually planning on doing a before and after show-and-tell, but can. Shoot, they're just some old wheels with old man's tires, and some old Milano parts.

Geeze, if I have to document it I guess I have to get the drilled and slotted discs which will mean one more thing to weld and have drilled out.

 

[Biba69]

But Wes, the drilled and slotted brake discs look so cool since the five holes on the 'new' wheels give a nice view of the discs and calipers.

Yeah, I've read just what you said, but have read that discs with a 'few' slots isn't a bad thing. But most likely I'll take your advice and go with the stock type of disc.

I'm a bit confused, are you willing to weld, machine down the hubs and re-drill? If I can get a fairly quick (I know you're a busy guy) turn-around I'd really appreciate your doing this for me. This aspect of the brakes/new wheels has really concerned me since I was aware that if the drilling is even a tiny smidgen off the wheels will always be out of 'sync'/round.

Perhaps you read that I have the 20 mm spacers (the wheels are a 40 mm offset) on order from Charlie DiMarco, so I'm sure that they'll line up perfectly with the re-drilled hubs. I've already received the longer 16 wheel studs from him. If you do this for me, should I send them along?

 

[Biba69]

ToonRBoy, I pretty much explained what I'll be doing/have done on my second from the top post. The 'lip' on the spacer will be machined to the outer edge (58.6 mm) of the outer wheel (see pre sandblasted photo below).

I'm not at all big on using drilled in studs (as opposed to splined wheel studs) since I feel that over the course of a number of years the studs might begin to pull out. Since the hubs will of course be off the car, and after four of the holes on it are welded up, machined and three additional holes drilled, it won't be any problem to simply tap in these studs before installing. The rears will take removing the wheel hubs to remove and replace the studs, but not remotely the hassle as there is on Spider's rear hubs.

 

[Biba69]

If it hadn't been done so frequently and often considerably more radically before I'd be somewhat leery of having the face (obviously the heaviest part) 20mm (3/4") farther out and centering on the ridge of an aluminum spacer.

As it is, the face of the wheels should be very close to where the face of the Cromodora 5-Stars are and the rear will extend 1/2" (13 mm) farther back since the wheels are 6.5" x 15".

 

[Biba69]

alfettaparts, it appears as if your front wheel is centered on the hub, or is that not what I'm seeing? Sorry to hear you're having problems. Those are some very wide tires, so I'm sure that everything must be done by the book to insure that they're secure.

 

[Biba69]

Slight update in that I picked up the wheels from the sandblaster, stopped by Discount Tire and ordered the 205/60R15 Michelin Primacy MXV4's. I asked if they could come up with a Summer tire that is quiet and handles well in that size. He came up empty so now it's a done deal except for having them installed/balanced.

When I was there it hit me that I'm somewhat screwed if I get a flat, but remembered alfettaparts open nuts on his car. To explain, to get the spare inside the fender I'll have to pull off the 20 mm spacer which is going to make for very long studs sticking out. Meaning I'll just get a set of wheel nuts like alfettaparts has. I've had one flat in the last 20 or so years...but...

Tonight (after my day job) I JB-Welded all of the curb rash on the wheels - which also included the edges of the center holes - since the center of the wheels aren't at all set back and partially stick out beyond the edge of the wheel rims, which I think is cool, but others might not agree.

The brakes/hubs are sort of on their way.

 

[Biba69]

The Milano front brake assemblies were hand delivered today by Larry Jr. They appear to be in great shape, about 3/4 left on the pads and the rotors, while worn, appear to have a lot left on them.

However, thinking it over, since my rotors will need to be drilled for 4x98 I might as well start with new ones...and new Performatek's Carbotech pads.

Out of curiosity, anyone know what the minimum, and stock thicknesses for the Milano brake discs are?

Sigh, in for a penny, in for a pound. I used this version of the saying since my Alfa Teledial's came from the UK and are what started the $nowball rolling, and rolling and...

alfettaparts, I hope Serpent can help you out, though I'm sure they can.