[Biba69]

I'm being somewhat research lazy here, but would like to know if anyone has installed 'aftermarket' front calipers on their Alfetta GT - and it was not only plug and play, but had considerably better clamping power?

For those not in the US, to us, all Alfetta GT's have 2000 four cylinders. This means that it does not have a ventilated rotor, so the caliper needs to have an appropriate sized opening for the disc.

I don't want to make brackets nor have custom made spacers for the caliper. I'm not saying cost is no object, but if there is enough of an improvement in stopping power so that the caliper is well worth the cost, I'm fine with that.

I'll add that they have to fit inside 14" 5-star wheels.

 

[Rik]

Biba

One of the easiest upgrades is to swap over to GTV6/75 (Milano) brakes. Obviously this requires a switch to the 5 stud hubs, which if you're considering a change of wheels may be a good thing. (I saw your comment on the GTV V6 wheels in the pictures forum, these should bolt straight up to the 5 stud hub)

For what its worth, my 75 Twin Spark has the standard vented discs and Brembo calipers as per the GTV6. They're ok now that I've put new discs on. Extra "bite" can be obtained by changing to a different pad, of which there are many options for this caliper.

On my Alfetta Gt (1.8) I have the older non vented disc as per you have described. Again they're ok for the application but if/when I have to replace the discs I will be looking into upgrading to the vented type, and Brembo caliper. This should be more than adequate for the car. I've never had an issue with them fading yet, but under prolonged heavy braking I sometimes feel they are on the limit. I haven't taken the car on a track yet, but I reckon they wouldn't last long.

Hope this helps, and I'm sure others will offer an opinion.

 

[86spider]

I believe I read someplace the aluminum Brembo calipers from a Milano could be swapped to the Alfetta if the spacer inserted for vented disc was removed.

Along with that I believe I read the vented disc could be drilled for 4x98 and use the V6 calipers.

any first hand experience out there?

 

[Alfar7]

Brakes

The Milano/GTV6 brakes fit the mount, but the smaller (non-vented Alfetta rotor) will not cover all of the brake pad. Simple solution is to "slot" the mounting holes of the caliper using a mill so that the caliper can be mounted closer to the centerline.
The V6 5 hole rotors can be easily drilled to fit the Alfetta 4 bolt hub. Just use one of the existing holes, and redrill 3 others.

 

[Alfaguy35]

Along with that I believe I read the vented disc could be drilled for 4x98 and use the V6 calipers.

any first hand experience out there?

'This is exactly what we run on the front of our Lemons car. The nice thing about this setup is it uses a common Alfa pad. We do have to run a 10mm spacer to clear the inside of a Momo Vega wheel.

 

[hotlegs32]

I installed Milano calipers/rotors/spindles on my 79 GT. Redrilled the hubs for the 4 bolt pattern. But I am using 15x7 Ronal wheels. And they required machining away a bit of the inside web. The Alfetta Ronals and V-6 Ronals are a bit different on the inside- V-6 has less webbing so that they clear the caliper. The 14" Alfa OEM alloy wheel will not clear the caliper. As a spare the 14" steel wheel will fit with an extra 1/4" spacer.
Braking is vastly improved, especially on the track.

 

[Biba69]

I was hoping to hear that someone has bought some terrific front calipers which fit the Alfetta GT's mounting points (or take little to make them fit) , have a much larger pad surface, and are either four or six pots - and of course the silhouette is narrow enough to fit inside my 14" Cromodora 5-Stars. Aluminum one's would also be nice. Wouldn't be inexpensive, but an easy upgrade.

It seems as if the modern fairly expensive calipers seem to be considerably more compact.

I prefer to stick with non-vented rotors - though might change my mind on this. In that vein, are any of the different version Alfetta rotors being sold new on eBay worth the money? They're something like $360 a pair.

 

[alfasrule]

Try these guy's. I think they have an upgrade kit for a Fetta.

Performatek - Home

 

[bshorey]

Have you tried anything other than stock pads? A pad with better grip might be a much simpler solution than trying to find aftermarket calipers, pads, etc..

Just a thought.

bs

 

[Alfar7]

Brakes

You can add all the brake rotor and pistons in the system that you want to show off with.
But the bottom line is how much "gription" the tires can give you. If brakes lock at "X" torque load, having "XX" availability is unnecessary.

Every ounce of unnecessary weight is a negative in the equation. The smallest (& resulting weight ) brake package that results in needed braking effort ( both torque load and repeatibility) is the optimum.

With any of the Transaxle cars the rear brakes must be changed out to other systems (Spider Calipers are the easiest) to lose the easily overheated stock calipers that have too much metal inside the pistons for the E brakes. (too much heat transfer to the fluid)

 

[Biba69]

I've always heard that if you can lock up your brakes, then why bother upgrading?

When I got my Alfetta GT, I thought the car stopped very well. Sometime later, when I got a GTV6, I was really knocked out by the brakes, especially in light of a much heavier front end.

The calipers in the GTV6 were pressing up against steel rotors. The calipers are larger than the Alfetta's and in my very backyard engineering/physics thinking, up to a point a larger stopping surface - especially if there is an even pressure across it - is going to stop faster and more efficiently...every time. I'm totally leaving brake fade out of this since I have no plans to put the Alfetta on a track (though I did with the GTV6).

I agree with you, Richard, in that I do need to install a fresh set of tires on the car. I also agree that the rear brakes are marginal, but I'd like to start with upgrading the fronts first. Very little choice in 14" tires unfortunately. Guys in Europe suggest tires, so might end up importing a set. Anyone have any experience with Vredestein's (yes, available in the US) on a 116?

I've been using Centerlines standard brake pads which seem to work well - especially since they neither leave much pad dust, nor do they seem to wear the discs down. I have used more aggressive pads in the past but they took some warming up and really put a groove in the discs - though it did mean they were doing their job.

I didn't find anything for the Alfetta GT, brake wise, on Performatek's website.

I really appreciate the input and realize the consensus is that the Alfetta calipers are fine, use some more aggressive pads, new tires, and that should be good enough. Unfortunately, not for me.

 

[bshorey]

If you liked the GTV6 brakes, it's not just the calipers. It's a function of calipers, rotors, wider tires, and a bunch of other things. So why not just do the obvious and bolt on the GTV6 suspension /brakes? You will have a better selection of tires in 15".

 

[Biba69]

Brian, you are correct and as it is, I have Milano (different from the GTV6's) uprights (machined Alfetta hubs for the larger bearings) on the front so it would be an easy switch - though not for the rear. And then there is the wheel situation to be taken care of. I'll add that I don't want to go to wider tires. I have 195/65-14's on it now.

 

[bshorey]

Brian, you are correct and as it is, I have Milano (different from the GTV6's) uprights (machined Alfetta hubs for the larger bearings) on the front so it would be an easy switch - though not for the rear. And then there is the wheel situation to be taken care of. I'll add that I don't want to go to wider tires. I have 195/65-14's on it now.

Fair enough. Perhaps one other possibility would be to try a different master cylinder. Something that is smaller diameter than what you have in there now, should provide more clamping force at the expense of a little more pedal travel. I think the original Alfettas had 19mm diameter mc's, and GTV6's had 21 mm mc's. There is also a chance that you have a larger mc in there already, as I think 21 mm is the commonly available size nowadays.

Check the numbers, and measure what you have. That might also be an indication of why the brakes don't seem as strong as you'd like.

bs

 

[Biba69]

Brian, I actually have another thread going on this very subject. The two sizes of Alfetta MC's are 20 and 22 mm. I'm using an ATE 20 mm MC, but it is, as well as the last one, apparently N(Very)OS. The last one (literally - as in no more ATE 20 mm's) was installed two months ago and is slowly leaking. The cost was $195-. I'm trying to find out the best grit for a Flex-Hone in a (both should have almost perfect bores) and whether 240 would be best and whether it should be silicon carbide or aluminum oxide.

Any ideas on this? I've not had particularly good luck with the no name MC's - but feel the ATE's are worth rebuilding. I have a 22 mm Flex Hone but no idea which 'ingredients' it is or should be. I've rebuilt a few clutch and brake MC's years ago and they worked fine. I'm very sure that neither will need to be re-sleeved - or else I'd send the loose one out. IAP has 20 mm ATE rebuild kits.

 

[J. S.]

Biba69, does your car have 250mm or 261mm front discs?

I used to have the 250mm discs on my 75 sedan (1.6 TwinCarb). I converted to the bigger 261mm 4-bolt, non-ventilated ones using the rotors, calipers and uprights of a 75 2.0 TwinCarb. They aren't hugely powerful but I found them to be a noticeable improvement over the smaller, original setup. I also switched to EBC brake pads and now the brakes are ok but still wouldn't mind finding something better. BUT...

I would also like to keep my 4-bolt pattern and 14" wheels in this car. So keeping those in mind, I'm not sure if there is really anything better out there that'd would also go together with the small wheels. Basically I'm limited to only swapping calipers and the MC and I don't know if it's really worthwhile if I'm keeping the 261mm rotor. I believe increasing the disc diameter would be on top of the priority list when aiming for more bite..

 

[Biba69]

J. S., my calipers are pretty close to the inside of the Cromodora 5-Stars, but not sure what the disc diameter is.

I've been looking around at the wheels that are on 'modern' European Alfa's since many have a 4 x 98 bolt pattern. Unfortunately the ones I like am pretty sure they're only available in a 17" wheel. 16" would be okay.

Meaning, if I could get a wheel I like as well as the 5-Stars, I'd then go up in size on the front discs, and get calipers to fit. True, would break my piggy bank, but at least worth checking out.

 

[iachella]

Biba:

You can have a stainless sleeve installed in your favorite MC. Then rebuilds will work without honing and worrying about how well you did the honing. There is also brass sleeves, but I think stainless lasts longer.

And for wheels, I too was(am) stuck on 5-stars. So I found these. 15x7. I have a few better pictures around, but can't seem to locate them right now.

 

[Biba69]

Stefano, boy would I like to have those wheels, but would much prefer a 15 x 6. Where did you get them? eBay? Also, definitely room for larger discs and calipers.

 

[iachella]

These wheels are made by ATS and the model is called Classic. The company is German and they are used a lot in the VW and older Porsche cars. It took me a long time to find them in a configuration I could use. I finally found the from a VW specialist in England and the configuration is 15x7, 4x100, ET13, Hub bore diameter 57.1. Interestingly, the hub bore is tapered to 57.1 but at the base it fits over the 58.8 hub of the Alfetta without interference. I had them redrilled to 4x98 and was prepared to mill the center, but I didn't need to. The ET13 is hard for some to live with, but nothing rubs and the cars still handles great. And they only cost about $125 each.

Alas, the company that supplied them to me doesn't exist on the Web anymore. They were called Advanced Auto Sport. Another company that has them in the old Porsche pattern of 4x130 and 5x130 is called Hoffmann Speedster. I have not contacted them about a special order from ATS (the kind folks at AAS made a custom order from ATS for me). Maybe they could contact ATS and get all the available sizes. There also is a supplier on the German Ebay that lists them and seems to be in contact with ATS or WolfRace which may be the current manufacturer, or something like that.

Interestingly, I have a set of the GTV6 Brembo calipers and rotors that I was planning to put on someday. I just pulled them out this morning and I can see the spacer in between. The two halves without the spacer seem to be very similar to the Alfetta calipers. The pads on the Brembos are bigger though and of course the calipers are lighter. I should take them apart and remove the spacer to see how they will fit. I have been delaying having the vented rotors re-drilled for 98mm as I don't race the car either. The lighter calipers and more pad area could be an improvement at any rate.