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Hello everyone.

In the past months I've been researching federal taxes, where they came from, and why we pay them. Through my research I've run into many different articles, books, movies leading from 9/11, World Banks, Government, Religon, etc etc etc. I've even went to a group discussion based on this.

Well I found a very good movie which scratches the surface on whats really going on in our world today. It's 2 hours long, but I highly recommend it.

Please watch it, and voice (type) your opinion out.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
 

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Man, I don't get this movie. But I aplaude you for searching out all that reading material, esp since, all the apathy these days about govt, etc. Wish I could find something interesting like that to engage myself in.
 

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ill give it a try for you sneidy

the movie has 3 parts.
the first part is about religion. its mostly factual, understanding that "new" religions are based upon their predecessors. beliefs, symbols, and rituals have throughout history been freely borrowed, changed and adapted for the new belief system. i see one day a new religion of sorts coming from darwinism, technology, reason, and the understanding of astronomy and other sciences. it will probably borrow sybols from old religions too. believers of religion that are willing to fight and die for it are beyond reason or change, so they must be dealt with with that understanding. they make for cheap and plentiful pawns. i dont like this any more than anyone else, but it is a lesson of history repeated ad nauseum.

the second part deals with the simple fact that the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. the fed is a mystery to me as it is to many people, but yes, it is an odd monopoly, independent of the government and to a large degree, self serving. JP Morgan, Vanderbilt, Gates, and oil cartels, among others, will always hoard money and power to the exclusion of everyone else, no matter how rich and powerful they already are.

the last part is a bit more farfetched, reaching conlusions that are a stretch. 911 could have been predicted, and prevented. the same is true of pearl harbor. i remember reading a time or newsweek article just after the trade center bombing, it was like 1994-95 that mentioned bin laden the taliban and everything else. the summation of the article was that they were at war with the usa, but the usa hadnt noticed it yet. but i dont think it was a vast government conspiracy. just regular government incompetence and stupidity. the patriot act and the surveilance thing as well as other programs are disturbing to me and many other people. but things are a cycle from too free to not free enough.

my own conspiracy theory, if you can call it that, is to follow the money. this country has no need to get into any wars with anybody. but look at the profits of war. who profits from war? oil companies, weapons manufacturers, technology companies, and support companies such as haliburton. these are the major players and they have a vast monetary interest in keeping it going. usa was involved in vietnam for eleven years based on a lie, and kept going for profit. no two ways about it. it will be at least that long before iraq is no longer profitable.

what you hear from some good, honest people is that this is all crap. they will tell you with sincerity that their religion is all good and if only you and everyone else would believe the same things they do, everything will be wonderful. they will also tell you that america is right no matter what and if our president says to kill people its because they are bad. end of story.

alfa bbers' please dont attack me for writing this. i am just expressing some thoughts that sneidy asked for. if you disagree with me totally, say so. just keep my mother out of it, ok? i am no smarter than anyone else around here and i dont profess to have the answers. sometimes discussion is fun and an end in and of itself. i dont mean to preach or resolve anything, just enjoy a chat with a fellow alfa bber.
 

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Guys,

This thread is just begging for trouble! Stirring up the political/ philosophical/ religious pot isn't usually an easy path. I'm assuming that most people are not responding because they don't really want to see yet another film telling them about how lame their situation has become.

As for me, well everybody knows that I am a Canadian expatriate, so they expect me to be a socialist, left-wing, tree-hugging peacenik atheist who supports socialized medicine, legalized marijuana, gay marriage, abortion rights and abolishing the death penalty. And of course, they would be right.

On the subject of taxes, I have paid lots and expect to continue to do so. In Canada, taxes are very high, but I accepted paying the elevated rates because I saw the results of my contributions. I accept that I have a social responsibility to look after my fellow humans and our environment and understand that the people I help elect get to make decisions about how to spend my tax dollars. Luckily, for the most part, in Canada the government put the money into building roads and other infrastructure, looking after the health care system pretty well (nothing is perfect, but it really does work) and taking care of my general well-being and safety. My taxes here in the USA are much lower, but I also get much less from the government for my money. However, I have nothing against taxes, provided that they go towards positive society-supporting expenses. The current administration is spending way too much on Iraq and maintaining the largest military force the planet has ever known. Those are not very positive expenses in my book and aren't the kind of stuff that I support. I believe in strong defense...not strong offense.

There! Now the flames can really begin!
 

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This kind of wacko tripe comes up every now and then . . . . oh, wait, I hear the black helos coming. I gotta put on my tin-foil hat.

I agree with you Alex on Iraq. I was totally against the second Gulf War, not because Saddam didn't deserve a long drop from a short rope, but rather because I didn't think the Iraqis themselves were worthy of the blood and treasure that the US and UK would pour into it. I was hoping I was wrong, but history has proven me right. It's up to the people of the middle east to free themselves to be islamic, and not, as a good Turkish friend told me once . . ."being prisoners of islam." No amount of bullets, blood, treasure, or goodwill can do that for them.
 

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This kind of wacko tripe comes up every now and then . . . . oh, wait, I hear the black helos coming. I gotta put on my tin-foil hat.

I agree with you Alex on Iraq....
Thanks for that, John.

About part 1 of the movie - I have always thought that aliens came here and mated with apes to create us. Seriously, I liked the presentation of the interesting facts, but they were too sparse and were not backed-up by enough credible evidence in the film. Having said that, I have always enjoyed the similarities between ancient texts (Gilgamesh and The Tibetan Book of the Dead are two examples) and biblical stories.

About Part 2, 3 and the rest - Conspiracy theories have always existed and the possibility that some or all of the factors could be true is very scary indeed. Unfortunately, the thrust of each of the arguments presented in this movie become suspect simply because there are so many of them presented at once and none of them is explained in any depth.

As a student of history and a retired naval officer, I can understand the 'engineering' of events and the 'spin' used to describe them. However, my study of military/ political history and twenty years of navy experience have taught me that many more of these 'engineered' events end very badly for the designers (Bay of Pigs, Tonkin Gulf, Iran/Contra, Watergate, etc) and get exposed by the mainstream media anyway. Either that or I had better get my tin foil hat on too!

A quote which should have been used in this movie is the 'Borg' motto from Star Trek (The Next Generation): "Resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated."

Uh-oh...I think I sense the black helos coming!
 

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First I just want to say that discussing politics should never be discouraged unless you want a country full of ignorant people. Alfa bb'ers shouldn't be afraid to discus these things as long as they are here in the off-topic section.

Zeitgeist was good. There are other films that go into each of the topics more but none that really sum it all up so well. I find the federal reserve stuff the most intresting since that is the basis of control. Heres a 3 hour video on the history of the FED and America. The recent credit crisis is a result of this. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=the+money+masters&total=550&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0


Honestly though this isn't new. This planet has seen so many civilizations rise and fall, and yet we are still here. America wasn't the first to "fight for Freedom" and certinly won't be the last. If America falls it won't mean the end of the world it will simply mean we need to start anew.......once again.

Oh yea and some advice for anyone visiting New York City anytime soon. Don't bring your camera cause your not allowed to take pictures in the city anymore. Bloomberg wants the only cameras in the city to be his.
 
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