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Discussion Starter #61
papajam said:
Not if you're Kimi it isn't.
and if the Ferrari had the pace of the McLaren I think it would be much less of a challenge for Michael and even Felipe tomorrow, but the sad fact is that to date Ferrari has just not matched the pace of the Renaults and the McLarens. Not to take away from Kimi, who I think is a very talented driver, but the car does matter.
 

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GTV116 said:
Alonso and Renault F1 World Champions.WHAT A LAUGH!!!!

:D :D :D

Is there anybody (who have seen the australian GP) that think realy that Alonso is not a very good driver?

By now, he is the best.

Giancarlo Fisichella has the same car, but is impossible for him to drive as fast as Alonso.

Alonso can be a lucky man one time or one race (like others) but not ALL the time. The start that he do, only can be done by a real champion. All of then who wanted to follow him had problems, is not dad luck, is speed.
 

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Alonso absolutely walloped the entire field - he's an easy money bet for world champ again after his performance here.

Button again showed how overrated he is, and in a way i think was lucky to have retired so he wouldnt have to suffer the humiliation of having qualified on pole only to crawl home with 5th.

Ferrari... well - clearly not on the pace, getting passed by Toro Rosso. When asked whether MS thought the v10s gave them an advantage because Liuzzi passed him, he blatantly said that it was just because the Fezza was too slow. He didnt sound overly chirpy about it.

JPM proved again he won't ever cut it - SO very lucky to actually make the start in his original qualifying position, and then muffed it all up anyway close to the end. I'm not sure whether Ron Dennis could have much more patience with him.
 

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Both Alonso and Kimi showed how far above the field they are as well as how much more their heads are in the game. For example... What was Jenson thinking on those restarts?!?! On the second restart, While behind Alonso, it didn't seem as if he was in the game at all! WHy was he hanging so far back? Also... he does not seem to have anything in him until his tires are nice and warm... unlike the class of the field.
I think Ferrari were off pace, but I also think they chose the wrong tires given the temperature of the tarmac. And... I didn't say it yesterday... but I think that... when it comes to the race... Massa is still the same overly excited driver that he was in his rookie year... and that's puting it nicely.
And Juan... he just disappoints me.
Sprintn
 

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Alonso is indeed the class of the field. IMO the single thing he has over Kimi is the ability to think. Kimi just seems to drive hard and fast with little thought for his machinery which is fragile at the best of times..... What did it prove setting the fastest lap on the last lap? more strain on an engine which has Imola comming up where you need every last horsepower. I hope he stays at Mclaren in '07 so we really do see who is the best, or rather how much better Alonso is.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
Alonso certainly has the best car, and the best luck, at the moment and I don't think anyone can deny that he is one of the top drivers. Fisi and Kimi suffer from more than their share of bad luck, and the Ferrari simply has not been competitive this year or last. It seems Button's honeymoon is finally over and even the UK press is starting to admit that he has more excuses than talent. Honda's decision to sacrifice championship points rather than accept the 10 slot penalty at Imola is further evidence of what everyone already knows - Button moves backward from the start, not forward. I would agree that Montoya has lost something over the last two years - he just isn't as hungry as he once was and certainly not in the same category as Kimi and Alonso at the moment. Unless Ferrari can get things sorted very quickly or Alonso runs into a string of unlikely bad luck the season will be lost, which I suspect will prompt Michael to officially pull the plug. He clearly enjoys racing but no champion other than the pathetic JV can stomach being passed by a Torro Rosso.
 

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"Pathetic JV"?!?! Ouch! I think that was a bit harsh! Although I realize that I am probably alone in this.?.? I will admit that JV sold his sole and stuck with a loser team such as BAR for WAY too long... but I also think that he loves driving and racing. Up until he went to BAR... he was always a smart, calculating, smooth, and aggressive (when needed) driver. And... always interesting to listen too... unlike most of the corprately muzzled drivers of the day. Yet he doesn't Slash at everything the way Irvine did.
Sprintn
 

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As for the mention of Kimi not being a thinking driver and just putting in fast laps up to the very end... You always want to push to the end of a race... especially when you are in Kimi's position... for two reasons... One... You want to force the guy up front to push his equipment and to push the envelope possibly into a mistake... Two... you never know what is going to happen up front until you cross the finish line. Look what happened to Jenson and Fisi.
Sprintn
 

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CarlosSpider said:
:D :D :D

Is there anybody (who have seen the australian GP) that think realy that Alonso is not a very good driver?

By now, he is the best.

Giancarlo Fisichella has the same car, but is impossible for him to drive as fast as Alonso.

Alonso can be a lucky man one time or one race (like others) but not ALL the time. The start that he do, only can be done by a real champion. All of then who wanted to follow him had problems, is not dad luck, is speed.
I didn't claim that Alonso is not a good driver.I claim that he is just that and nothing more.Although a world champion he lacks the qualities of a driver who is meant to be a point of reference in formula's 1 history.
Is there any need to remind you of world champions which time and history passed over (D.Hill,J.Villeneuve are the most recent examples).
In my opinion Alonso belongs to this category.Time will tell.And anyway as a Ferrari fan i learn to consider as Ferrari's traditional opponents McLaren and Williams.Not Renault.
 

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Sprintn said:
GTV116,
I just read your entry regarding Ferrari dropping out of F1. I think it would be a very sad day if that happened. Throughout the History of F1, or Grand Prix, Alfa/Ferrari have been one of the few constants... if not the only constant. Enzo use to always threaten to quit in order to get his way... not too unlike the recent past i guess... but... other than pull out of individual races, I don't remember that he ever pulled out completely.?.? Although I'm not a big "Ferrari constructors" fan (I tend to follow drivers not teams) I feel that F1 wouldn't be "The Pinical Series" without the presence and 100% effort of Ferrari. Because of this heritage... of all the super cars out there on the market today... there is nothing like sitting behind the wheel of a Ferrari, of any vintage.
Sprintn
Dear Sprintn
Starting from your last words Ferrari is indeed by far the strongest name in international automotive scene, which in my opinion has no need of advertising,FIA's politics and public relations to establish it's strong image and to increase it's clientele.The contemporary F1 world is less of a sport and much more of advertising,politics and a means for modest newbies japanese and affluent german manufacturers to obtain the sporting heritage and backround they lack (even BMW's racing history is a joke in comparison to Ferrari's).
Ferrari has nothing to gain from it's partecipation in this game which is financialy impering for struggling Fiat's treasury (although Ferrari claims that is selffunding.That's a big lie) at the same that whichever successes don't empower her image and is of no commercial consequence to the other companies of the Gruppo Fiat (noone buys Lancia because of Ferrari's F1 championships).
I agree with you on Enzo's tactics of the past but i have to remind you that those days f1 circus wasn't yet a synonymous with Bernie's fat wallet, Vodafone's and P. Morris' campaign.It was more or less a strong competition between national school of motorsport.A field where small French, Italian and British industries (with economic help from big car manufacturers) were compiting each other.I also have to remind you that Ferrari's golden pages of racing history (in the pre Schumacher period) were writtten in endurance races and prototype's championships and not in F1 races.The situation changed ( and Ferrari reestablish it's name as F1's most succesfull team) under fortunate circumstances that found the right people in the right place in the right time (with Michael's genious as first violin of this orchestra) and a weak and rather amateur opossition which took it's first steps (big car manufacturers as shareholders of small England based racing companies.The fact that british media and newspapers still consider McLaren, Williams etc. as british products-and boast their hostility to Ferrari and Schumacher at every occasion it's a sad british story of misconception).The shareholders became owners and in Toyota's and Honda's case it's economic health guarantees future dominance (despite current poor results).Ferrari's small size (as a specialist on limited production super cars) has as a consequence Fiat's financial backing in order to be the prancing horse extra competitive.Do you believe that Fiat's economic situation can responde to that need for a long time?As a Ferrari fan (and Michael's too) i cant stand my beloved team as a backmarker.I lived Ferrari's lean years of poor results, unfulfilled promises and i don't want to live them again.Ferrari should quit F1's competition against low pedigree teams and isotonic drink companies and concentrate to what is it's speciality.To built dream cars.
As for the future of the F1 world without the participation of the most historic team and it's supporters "frankly Scarlett i don't give a ****".
Formula 1 needs Ferrari not vice versa.
 

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Sprintn said:
"Pathetic JV"?!?! Ouch! I think that was a bit harsh! Although I realize that I am probably alone in this.?.? I will admit that JV sold his sole and stuck with a loser team such as BAR for WAY too long... but I also think that he loves driving and racing. Up until he went to BAR... he was always a smart, calculating, smooth, and aggressive (when needed) driver. And... always interesting to listen too... unlike most of the corprately muzzled drivers of the day. Yet he doesn't Slash at everything the way Irvine did.
Sprintn
I disagree about him selling his sole.... I think he went to BAR and stuck with then so long out of loyality. Craig Pollack was an old friend as well as his manager.
 

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With the exception of the 1997 season, when Villeneuve won the title in the last race against Schumacher (with the higly uncompatitive Ferrari F310 B), can anyone remind me a decent Jacque's race.(In 1998 drove for Williams MechachromeRenault).
 

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GTV 116,

Point well taken. All I'm saying is that it would be a sad day. Also... What make Ferrari a "Dream car" as apposed to a Gold-chain-O-meter car is its racing and it's continuing racing heritage. So it is my opinion that if they are not going to race F1, They should stake a Solid claim in Sports car racing. I think it would even help the series.

GTV4EVER,
Yes... JV put in a good effort and was getting paid A LOT right along with his friend. But You have to admit that after some point, when a flailing team is still flailing... in business, management, and on the track... there comes a time that you must look out for your career and do what is best for your reputation. He even stayed on when Pollack was let go. And... JV Couldn't stand David Richardson. Then again... maybe Pollack is to blame.?.? After all... he was JV's manager and should have been helping him make decisions that would be best for his career.?.? Just a thought. This all makes me think it was for the money. Look at Senna... He offered to drive for Williams, along side Prost, for FREE. But... Don't get me wrong... JV is one of my favorite drivers on the grid.

Sprintn
 

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JV JV.. From 1994-1997 any Factory Renault engined car was phenomenally better than the rest of the field - yes JV had a wonderful debut year and in 1997 championed but the Williams was the best car going by a long way. JV will be walloped back and front this year by Nick Heidfeld who is a genuine talent and I believe is more worthy of the seats that JPM, Jenson and perhaps even Giancarlo are currently sitting in. Heidfeld is consistent and doesn't talk himself up and I think he would do well given the right opportunity. JV was unfortunate after 1997 but he is now well and truly past being competitive, even in the right car.

In regards Ferrari - Formula 1 (in fact most motorsport) doesnt make a heap of a lot sense financially - however I dont think you can say that they aren't building dream cars.

F40, F50 and Enzo are all basically F1 cars with more bodywork - suspension mounted straight onto the gearbox, advanced electronics and materials etc etc. All Ferrari models since about the F355 have directly benefited from Ferrari's F1 involvement. Ferrari do need to play their driver cards well - Dennis at Mac and even Briatore has always been one step ahead on that front.

I think the scuderia will tire very quickly of Massa's ahem.. exuberance? (read repair bill) and have to look to the future very soon. Personally, I'd love to see Heidfeld go to Ferrari (not as far flung as it sounds) or even Giancarlo. An italian driver in a Ferrari for the first time since.. Larini??
 

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JV moment

My favorite JV moment was a corner in Spain when he passed MS for the championship. JV faked to the inside, MS took the bait, then JV drove around the outside for the win. Oh ya, MS then intentionally hit JV (like Hill in Australia) and got season points taken away.

All the Ferrari band-wagon fans weren't around in those days.

I look for Massa to be a better sportsman.
 

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Problem is... Massa will probably never be in the position to punt someone off in order to keep his world championship hopes alive... if he doesn't learn how to stay on the track or keep his car in one piece. I'm just say'n. LOL!!!
Sprintn
 

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Velocess said:
My favorite JV moment was a corner in Spain when he passed MS for the championship. JV faked to the inside, MS took the bait, then JV drove around the outside for the win. Oh ya, MS then intentionally hit JV (like Hill in Australia) and got season points taken away.

All the Ferrari band-wagon fans weren't around in those days.

I look for Massa to be a better sportsman.
As you have a short memory let me remind you that all Ferrari fans were around the whole 1997 season,watching Schumacher with the uncompetitive F310B ( a car which was six tenths of a second slower per lap than Villeneuve's)winning five out of sixteen races of the calendar and claiming the title up to the last race.What Schumacher did to Villeneuve (which was undoubtely an unfair move spoiling his career for years) wasn't a sign of his sporting character and mentality and surely nothing of his own invention.It was a repeat of what the early 90's duel (Senna and Prost) did to each other (japanese GP's of 1989 and 1990).And it was FIA's attitude (who considered both incidents as usual race incidents with no further consequences ) that allowed Schumacher to try that move thinking that this was a part of the game and for sure nothing punishable.And the answer to the question regarding Schumacher's punishment is obvious.FIA, having to choose between an english and a german speaking product preferred the intellectual rebellion and anglosaxon image of Villeneuve to promote the sport in the global market (for economical reasons and not for the sport's own sake) instead of the nasty hillbilly german (who definitely had a low effect in non german speaking markets).
As far as the Schumacher-Hill's incident in australian GP back in 1994 is concerned, not even the british press seriously tried to put the blame on Schumacher.They blame Hill's inexperience, who let his car be hit by Schumacher's car. (Hill tried to overtake Schumacher when Benetton rebounded out of control in the racing line after it's collision on the barriers).
 

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product preferred the intellectual rebellion and anglosaxon image of Villeneuve to promote the sport in the global market
I don t understand what you mean. He is french canadian and was raised in Monaco, that is french also. So more french than english background.

When Michael has a good car he is the best driver around. When he has to think to catch up instead of keeping the lead, he lose everything and this is not he s only bad move. Everytime there is pressure, he collapses in his head
 

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alfa_164s said:
I don t understand what you mean. He is french canadian and was raised in Monaco, that is french also. So more french than english background.

When Michael has a good car he is the best driver around. When he has to think to catch up instead of keeping the lead, he lose everything and this is not he s only bad move. Everytime there is pressure, he collapses in his head
I know Villeneuve's origins.As a canadian who speaks english (no matter if Quebec's official language is french) is concidere to be anglosaxon in peoples concience.Isn't Canada a member of the British Commonwealth?
Let me remind you that Michael won 4 out of 7 world titles having an equal or uncompetitive car compared to opposition.( Benetton Ford, Ferrari F12000, Ferrari F2001 and F2003GA.)Let me remind you the way he won the 2000 (after 4 consecutive retirements in the middle of the season and by winning the last four races.) and 2003 titles.The real supercars that Michael drove were the F2002 and F2004.You cant be the most succesful F1 driver of all times (according to official F1 archives) by being good only when the road is clear.
 

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I dunno Schui fans....whadda ya make of Barichello struggling so bad in the Honda? I've always rated him very, very highly - I always thought him being on pace with Schui flattered the German rather than took anything away from him. Now I'm not so sure.......

Yeah, Schui sucks - no talent, lots of luck. ;)
 
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