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OK, lets look at the conspiracy, from my point of view on the inside;
1. Cutting the chicane; Schumacher did it in Hungary and the rule was revised.
2. The blocking of Massa on Saturday; Alonso was FLAT OUT to make the finish line to start his last lap, he gave Massa a tow along the back straight, Massa may/may not have made a mistake in Parabolica. Is it right the we expect drivers to sacrifice their laps for another driver? of course not what is expected is that a driver on a slow lap gets out the way.
4. Rear wheel covers-V-mass dampers; How come the mass damper is now illegal after nearly a year of running it? how come the wheel covers are described as 'brake ducts' and move but they are fine.
5. Alonso had to push 'beyond the limit' following the penalty, he had more fuel than Michael, would probably have got Massa and Heidfeld at the start and the gone on to win or at least come second without the quali penalty.

The whole thing this weekend really stinks, as Fernando said 'It is no longer a sport'
 

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Discussion Starter #382
AllthingsZagato said:
OK, lets look at the conspiracy, from my point of view on the inside;
1. Cutting the chicane; Schumacher did it in Hungary and the rule was revised.
If there was a rule revision, I missed it. It was my understanding Schumacher gave up the position on the third lap.

AllthingsZagato said:
2. The blocking of Massa on Saturday; Alonso was FLAT OUT to make the finish line to start his last lap, he gave Massa a tow along the back straight, Massa may/may not have made a mistake in Parabolica. Is it right the we expect drivers to sacrifice their laps for another driver? of course not what is expected is that a driver on a slow lap gets out the way.
Alonso was on an out lap, albeit a fast one, but still not a hot lap, so he was slower and getting up to speed. He was not at qualifying speed - look at the lap times - his out lap was over three seconds slower. What impact that had on Massa's lap I can't say, but the stewards looked at it and thought there was something there. Regardless, IMO, Alonso had little choice since the session was about to expire. He could properly let Massa through and not set a new time and get stuck in P8, or stay in front of him and set a time and hope for the best. Given the marginal difference from P8 to P10, especially with a compliant team mate to assist, it was an easy decision to risk it. In the end he got caught out by the stewards, but well worth the risk.

Where is #3?

AllthingsZagato said:
4. Rear wheel covers-V-mass dampers; How come the mass damper is now illegal after nearly a year of running it? how come the wheel covers are described as 'brake ducts' and move but they are fine.
The same reason that six-wheeled Tyrells were eventually banned, as was the famous and my personal favorite Brabham "sucker" car after its one win - because the rules are constantly being evaluated and interpreted. The wheel covers may be banned at some point too upon further review.

AllthingsZagato said:
5. Alonso had to push 'beyond the limit' following the penalty, he had more fuel than Michael, would probably have got Massa and Heidfeld at the start and the gone on to win or at least come second without the quali penalty.
Just like he would have had pole at Monaco.

AllthingsZagato said:
The whole thing this weekend really stinks, as Fernando said 'It is no longer a sport'
Alsono whines like a spoilt child faced with reality. When things go his way everything is fine, but suddenly a ruling goes against him and F1 is no longer a sport. Not only that, his penalty is the reason his engine blew up. Fernando - you had a 12 point s lead. Do the math. All you have to do is finish mid-points to limit the damage. If he was "pushing" so hard the engine blew then his decision to do so was as flawed at Michael's idiocy trying to hold off De La Rosa and Heidfeld several weeks ago when his tires were toast that cost him at least 3 points.

And contrast Alonso's reaction to that of Schumacher after Monaco. Alonso whined and complained and blew up his engine. Schumacher accepted the penalty decision and started from the pit row and drove a brilliant race to score points and limit the damage. Alonso better use the next three weeks to get his head together - he will need all of his brilliance as a driver (and I do think he is brilliant) to overcome what appears to be the competitive advantage that Ferrari enjoys at the moment.
 

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This is going to be the tightest race for both the drivers and makers championships in years, and as Martha Stewart would say
"That is a GOOD thing" !
 

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What a boring race - the F1 spectacle is clearly more exciting than the racing.

Good on MS, and hopefully he can go through and finish off WC number 8. I dont think you can really say Alonso did the wrong thing by driving hard - he would have known MS was coming 1st and would have wanted to keep his points advantage to a maximum. If he came in 6th and got 3 points it doesnt help him a great deal does it. He's a racer, thats what he's meant to do.

On another note, how ridiculous that the passion-less sod sitting next to MS on the podium will join Ferrari next year. His demeanour and grumpiness are much more suited to Dennis/McLaren.

On a brighter point though congratulations to Robert Kubica - who not only qualified well but drove a brilliant race and vindicated BMW's decision to let JV go finally.
 

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py105 said:
What a boring race - the F1 spectacle is clearly more exciting than the racing.
Only watched I think 2 races this year, sleeping is far more interesting ... and I used to watch every single one, no matter how unexciting for like 20 years of my life.
Good on MS, and hopefully he can go through and finish off WC number 8.
I'm still rooting for Alonso. He deserves to get 2 in a row and thus make it real. MS had his day 4 years ago ...

Pete
 

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Sleeping is more interesting, with about 20 laps left I started to nod off for about 3 lap segments.. :D I eventually snoozed with about 2 laps to go and woke up at the champagne.. D'Oh!

I remember Monaco last year I fell asleep just after the first round of pit stops and woke up in the press conference - none of it made any sense :D
 

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Once again I get the feeling that this thread keeps being fed because of for or anti MS fans. I wonder what the number of replies will be next season. Just one comment. In the first lap and couple of turns JF was deliberatelly slow and he kept cars out of line in order to help Alonso win places. I don't question the ethics of that, although nobody makes a comment. If this was the case for Ferrari, could it attract more attention and comments? Just wonder.
Tasos
 

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Discussion Starter #389
From Planet F1:

Suggestions that Schumi shied away from being team-mate to the incoming Raikkonen were given short shrift by team boss Jean Todt.

"Some people, who would speculate that Michael decided because he did not want to compete with Kimi, they are simply stupid," he complained.
 

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mmmm......you'll notice the official announcement of Raikkonen coming to Ferrari didn't happen until the official Schumi retirement announcement. I know, I know, just a coincedence.....:rolleyes:
 

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I saw the Quali coverage and the steward's call was embarrasing to the sport. Massa wins one race, In a great car, and all of a sudden he is a whining Premadana!!!! He was so far out of line in his complaint... he sould have been penilized for even bringing it up!!!! I can't wait for Kimi to kick his A$$ next year... if massa is even still with Ferrari!
Sorry to see Michael stepping down. Sound like maybe he wasn't being treated well by the Ferrari higher-ups.?.? But then again... they needed to know so that that could make a driver decision befor the driver pool was dried up.?.? Still sad though... and I'm not even a big fan.
 

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I should add... the stewards admitted that there was no "intentional" blocking. That said... how could there be blocking? F1 evidently has it's own definition of "Blocking". At leat in Micheals case at Monaco, they were consistant with his penalty in saying his move was intentional.
 

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slight change of pace

Renault F1 engine playing "God save the Queen"
[ame]http://www.metacafe.com/watch/240975/f1_engine_song/[/ame]
Now back to the discussion in progress...:)
 

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What I don't understand is: Per the rules, INTENTIONAL blocking warrants a penalty, but UNINTENTIONAL blocking does not. The stewards have said that they feel that Alonso's blocking was unintentional. If that's true, then why was he penalized? I don't know whether he impeded Massa or not - but if the stewards say it was unintentional, then why the penalty? Even though I'm a Ferrari fan, I still question this call by the stewards.

And someone wrote earlier that, if you're qualifying and come up on traffic, then though s**t, that's just the way it is. Agreed! Back in the 80s and 90s I don't recall seeing drivers lodging protests and the like, because that's just the way it was. But then again, we didn't have Speedvision and The Internet back then, so maybe we missed a lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff that we now see...who knows?

David
 

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Agreed, Ferrari did not present any data to show the Massa's car was disturbed by the aero wake only that Massa understeered through the Parabolica, maybe because he was going too fast!!!!!!!!! still wants done is done lets hope justice and payback are in the post
 

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Discussion Starter #396
davidteachey said:
What I don't understand is: Per the rules, INTENTIONAL blocking warrants a penalty, but UNINTENTIONAL blocking does not. The stewards have said that they feel that Alonso's blocking was unintentional. If that's true, then why was he penalized? I don't know whether he impeded Massa or not - but if the stewards say it was unintentional, then why the penalty? Even though I'm a Ferrari fan, I still question this call by the stewards. David
Unintentional blocking is punished and has been all season, until the rule was changed last week after Renault's whining. At the European GP JV had his final qualifying session times deleted for blocking Fisi, although it was not deemed intentional, and at Monaco Fisi had his final session times deleted for blocking DC, although it was not deemed intentional. The same standard was applied to Alonso, and after the stewards made a decision the same punishment was given to Alonso that had been given all season.
 

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I see, Matt. I wish a qualifying format could be thought up that would always be fair, and keep everyone happy. And it would have to be TV-friendly and spectator-friendly, given this day and age. I wonder if that's possible?

David
 

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I say we go back to the one hour quali format in quali trim with quali fuel loads!!! Then for the race they can make the adjustment, refuel, etc. That way it is like a two race week-end. Quali (because you know everyone is in trim and on the same fuel loads) and Race. ANd... you have to time things carefully as to get a clean lap.
Just a suggestion.

Sprintn
 
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