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PSk said:
I used to think that ... but Alonso is smart and has driven very well to bag his WC, and is again doing so this year.

At Suzuka we saw that he has big balls too ...

MS's good days were the late 90's ... since then he had the BEST car and simply racked up many WC's ... so you cannot use the best car angle.

I have always found it disappointing that MS needed team rules, as he didn't need to slow Irvine and Barrichello as he is miles faster ... and this cheating, simply shows he is not as confident as he outwardly makes out. So he himself does not think he is that much better than Alonso and Kimi ... otherwise why does he feel the need to cheat? And the Ferrari this year is a good car compared to the Renault and McLaren ...

Pete
Well maybe because Monaco is so tight that if you finish first in qualifying you seldom finish worse. Pete I don't think it's a matter of confidence as trying to use every angle to win. Thats assuming he cheated?? Anyway don't like Monaco for that reason of hard passing or none. Wonder if my rain dance has changed the forcast for the British Grand Prix. I know in caused severe lighting in Toronto, so maybe I should stop;)
 

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ALFA-75-MAN said:
Well maybe because Monaco is so tight that if you finish first in qualifying you seldom finish worse. Pete I don't think it's a matter of confidence as trying to use every angle to win. Thats assuming he cheated?? Anyway don't like Monaco for that reason of hard passing or none. Wonder if my rain dance has changed the forcast for the British Grand Prix. I know in caused severe lighting in Toronto, so maybe I should stop;)
Monaco is a fantastic track ... the top of my 'Gee I wish I could do a proper lap or 2 there' tracks. It would be a fncking exciting ride!!!

Next would be Spa, Monza, etc.

Even if you qualify first at Monaco you still have to 'thread the needle' for 70 or whatever laps ... it's just amazing that the human body/brain can do it!

Pete
 

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I'm pretty sure that the left picture, which shows Michael staying way too tight the the guardrail, is the turn of the incident. Plus... He is in the car in that photo. If that photo was taken when the marshals were removing the car, why would he still be in it, and why aren't there marshals around it? I realize he has done some things that show poor judgement... but something as lame as this?!? In front of God and everybody?!? I think Micheal got lucky in that he didn't put it in the barriers... he was doing everything he could to save his car. But unfortunatly that "LucK" was a double edged sword in that it also made it look as if he were trying to "cheat". He really has nothing left to prove... so why do something so stupid. I am in the opposite position of Pete in that I am not a MS fan, although I will admit that his driving speaks for itself.
 

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Sprintn said:
I realize he has done some things that show poor judgement... but something as lame as this?!? In front of God and everybody?!?
He did the 97 thing in front of everybody ... including God. He pushed Henz of at Montreal in front of everybody. He doesn't think like you and I.
I think Micheal got lucky in that he didn't put it in the barriers... he was doing everything he could to save his car.
He lost control at 18 kph!!!! ... remember they have all the numbers from the Ferrari's computer. It started as a loose and finished as a 'well I'm stuffed so I might as well stuff everybody else'. The point IS he could still have made it through that corner if he had wanted to. He had already saved the lose. First simply by driving around the corner, maybe using extra revs to half spin the car to tighten the line, and secondly by not stalling it. These cars have anti-stall software ...
He really has nothing left to prove... so why do something so stupid.
Again he does not think of consequences. He has done this sort of thing over and over and over in his racing career. Even in F3 he pushed (I think) Hakenin into the barriers.

I know it is hard for us normal people to understand, but he is not normal! And this is why Ralph, his brother, cannot race against him ... he knows, and is simply intimidated and scared off from trying, when he occassionally can catch him in the first place.

In the end mate, I have my views on the man and this incident and you will have yours. It's not important that we all agree :). The only thing we can agree on is this has compromised what was looking like being a great 'rest-of-the' season battle. Now Alonso can relax that little bit more ...
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #226
Sprintn said:
I realize he has done some things that show poor judgement... but something as lame as this?!? In front of God and everybody?!? I think Micheal got lucky in that he didn't put it in the barriers... he was doing everything he could to save his car. But unfortunatly that "LucK" was a double edged sword in that it also made it look as if he were trying to "cheat". He really has nothing left to prove... so why do something so stupid. I am in the opposite position of Pete in that I am not a MS fan, although I will admit that his driving speaks for itself.
I tend to agree with the above, simply because there was so little at stake, and because MS has had his share of lapses in the ****pit - like spinning at Indy while miles in front - to name just one. In this case, he either starts P1 or P2, and if P2 and he can't get by he drops 2 points. This wasn't the WC clinching race where everything was at stake, in fact it wasn't even the race, it was qualifying. A quick review of the official F1 site shows the following:

Bahrain - Heidfeld reprimanded for forcing DC off during the race.

Malaysia - Kimi claims he was held up, Button claims he was held up by Speed, and Heidfeld says DC blocked him in qualy. Klein puts Kimi out, a "fundamental mistake" on Klien's part according to Kimi.

Australia - In qualy Alonso says he was held up by Heidfeld, Albers held up by a Honda, and Monteiro and Barrichello claim they were held up without saying who. During the race Speed passes DC under the yellow - loses his race position.

San Marino - Massa, Alonso, and R. Schumacher claim they were held up in qualy without saying who, Trulli claims he was held up by MS.

Euro - Speed claims a Midland held him up, and Fisi blasts JV as "unprofessional" for blocking in qualy. JV has his final stage times deleted as punishment.

Spain - Klein claims JV held him up in qualy; Kimi, Massa say they were blocked without saying who, Heidfeld says R. Schumacher blocked him and Albers says the same about Sato.

Monaco - Alonso, Webber, and Fisi all claim the MS accident ruined their final lap. Nico says DC held him up. Speed says Montagny held him up. DC says Fisi blocked him. Kimi, Trulli, JPM, Monteiro, Sato, and Montagny all claim they were held up without saying who. Fisi has his final stage times erased for blocking in qualy. MS has all times deleted. During the race JV given a drive through penalty for passing under the yellow.

The above simply demonstrates that there is a lot of blocking or holding up going on all over the grid, and it seems with every race more claims are being made.

To me, the whole "furor" and discussion of a "MS ban" over an incident in qualifying is really ridiculous. And what I think it comes down to, besides the fact that while some respect him, not that many people actually like him and the UK motoring press and establishment downright loathe him, the fact that MS is not allowed to make a mistake. Which might be fair - he is the 7 times WC and holds virtually every record there is. No one suggests Montoya should retire if he spins on the parade lap (?!?!?!?!), but when MS gets it wrong for whatever reason at 18-25 kph and somehow saves the car from hitting the barrier he should either "retire" or be "banned." The Spanish steward has said that if he had not saved the car and had hit the barrier he would not have been penalized.

This same "no mistake" standard was true several years ago when MS's perfect season was ruined right there at Monaco, under the safety car no less. I'll never forget my disbelief seeing his car come out with the suspension in pieces after Montoya ran into him. But whose fault was it? It was Michael's fault, for "brake checking" Montoya. Now for those of us who have spent time on the track keeping distance under the safety car is one of the most basic rules, especially since drivers are all over the track keeping heat in the tires and also braking and doing all sorts of unexpected things. But it wasn't Montoya's fault for rear-ending Michael, it was Michael's fault for not checking his mirrors and braking too hard. MS is not allowed mistakes.

A long post - sorry, and as always just my opinion. I think the discussion is great and am happy the bb has some F1 fans. Now if only Alfa Romeo would get back in!
 

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You guys are in love with Schumacher and Ferrari. Yuck. (well most of you)

From f1technical.net


Michael Schumacher was penalised after the qualifying session in Monaco for intentionaly blocking the other drivers in their last fast lap. Joaquim Verdegay was one of the stewards that had to look into the incident. Yesterday he explained in a Spanish newspaper why Schumacher was found guilty.

1. At the moment that Schumacher's Ferrari was only driving 16km/h, the German turned his steering wheel to the left to put his F248 on the racing line so he would block the drivers approaching Rascasse.

2. In Rascasse he pushed the brakes 50% harder in the last lap than he did in all the other laps during qualifying.

3. Schumacher declared that he tried to put his car in reverse but that the engine switched off. On the footage you can see that the car hopped forwards, so this could only mean that the car was in first gear.

4. Schumacher pointed out that, just like any other car on the grid, his Ferrari engine shuts down automatically after the car stands still for 10 seconds. This is a required safety regulation for the FIA, but it is also required that a button is present that allows the driver to override this setting and leave the engine running. All drivers are aware of that button because they have to use it in case they spin off. Why did Schumacher all of a sudden forget about this button?

According to Verdegay these where the 4 reasons why Schumacher was found guilty and was penalised.
 

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Discussion Starter #229
Hit an Apex said:
You guys are in love with... Ferrari.
It is only because Alfa Romeo (or in my case Lancia) isn't fielding a car or engine. Let's begin a campaign to have Alfa simultaneously re-enter the North American market and field an F1 team - who's with me?
 

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That's it... That's all I Got!!! :) I keep trying to give Michael the bennifit of the doubt, but you guys just ain't have'n any of it! LOL!!!! Great conversation though... was fun trying to anylise the situation!!!
Cheers
Sprintn
 

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Sprintn said:
I keep trying to give Michael the bennifit of the doubt, but you guys just ain't have'n any of it!
Cheers
Sprintn
Sorry but I've had a gut full of the guy now ... just too many times. I can't wait until he retires!

No smoke without fire and he deserves his dodgy reputation ... and when he is a Granddad and his grand child asks him why he cheated, what will he answer?

Pete
 

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Maybe his grandchildren will be proud of his achievements, in terms of record holdings, or they will be busy enjoying the wealth that he will provide them with. Don't forget that as we get older we tend to remember only the good times.
 

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TASOS CHATZ said:
Maybe his grandchildren will be proud of his achievements, in terms of record holdings, or they will be busy enjoying the wealth that he will provide them with. Don't forget that as we get older we tend to remember only the good times.
But your inner voice knows the truth ... and it would haunt me if I had raced with his ethics.
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #234
From PlanetF1:

Keke Rosberg has admitted that he may have been a little harsh in his criticism of Michael Schumacher, following his Monaco incident, and has apologized to the German driver.
 

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You know you people are so naive if you think that no one cheats in F1 or any motorsport racing. My God your hung up on whether a person parks his car in a corner of a race track. Get over it!! We observe the sport from the outside looking from a fan point of view. I've heard of extra oil in race cars etc... If we thought everyone but Shumi is a cheat why do they weight cars all the time or lock them so no one can change them. Teams listen to engine sounds via machines to figure out what other teams are doing is this cheating? I love Shumi and Ferrari can't wait for the next race and don't give a **** what he did if it was intentional or not. Other teams don't cheat no just Shumi and Ferrari why? Because he's the worst of all the cheaters. Your out to lunch with this one big time. In racing there has always been teams trying every thing possible to gain the upper hand period. If you think its only Shumi or Ferari your insane. Just look at what teams have done in the past you may realize that thats what teams do use technology to be better than other teams until they get caught. You would think he killed someone the way you babies talk. Your not in racing your not even close to his caliber of a driver and yet you have the balls to write on a web site all sorts of nonsense you have no clue period. Oh boy he's a cheat he stopped his car oh boy kill him how can he live with himself. Well hmmm seven time champion hmmm most poles drives a Ferrari and gets paid hmmm compare that to writing on a web site having a boring job (most of you) not all I hope. Give me a break all you righteous people. You have never sinned reminds me of the bible something to do with throwing the first stone he who hasn't sinned. My favourite athlete my favourite sport F1 and Shumi!! Can't stomach all the criticism from people who all think there better.:mad: :p :D

Oh one more think Keke Rosberg what did you do better? You shot off your mouth before your mind realized your son is racing now and maybe somone like Shumi might remember your big mouth. Or you just stupid!

His family will think he was the best driver out there and so should you because no one has done better.....

"But your inner voice knows the truth ... and it would haunt me if I had raced with his ethics."
Pete

Pete with all do respect we are assuming guilt and maybe we should but do you think this one race or any other will change all his achievments to date?

Retirement for Shumi I hope not because he's to dam good.

Here's hoping for rain in Britain to see what he can do ten times better the the current false and paper champion Alonso who was handed his championship by Kimi bad luck. (my thoughts)

Hey how about this:

Charity
In 2005, Schumacher donated US$10 million to charity for the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake in a charity show on the German television network ZDF.[12] It was later announced that Schumacher's bodyguard, Burkhard Cramer, and Cramer's two sons, had died while on holiday in Phuket, Thailand. In fact, his donation surpassed that of any other sportsperson, most sports leagues, many worldwide corporations and even some countries

or this

Awards
Michael Schumacher has won the coveted Laureus World Sportsman of the Year award in 2002[9] and 2004[10], for his outstanding performance in the 2001 and 2003 seasons respectively. He joins a select group of sports personalities to win the award - golfer Tiger Woods, cyclist Lance Armstrong and tennis player Roger Federer. In its 7-year history, no other sportsman has been nominated more times than Schumacher, who also received nominations for the 2001, 2003 and 2005 awards.

or this

Special ambassador to UNESCO
Schumacher is a special ambassador to UNESCO and has donated US$3 million to the organization. He has funded projects for the construction of a school in Senegal, a clinic in Sarajevo and a centre for street children in Peru. He has even taken the rare step of visiting Sarajevo to see how his funding has benefited child victims of war. For his contribution, he was named a UNESCO Champion For Sport by its Director-General Koïchiro Matsuura in 2002.

So he's a bad dude okay he likes to win take that out of him and you won't have a great F1 driver.
 

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I don't care if Ferrari cheat ... teams always cheat.

Sorry Alfa-75-Man ... I've lost complete respect for him now. That move was a complete and utter [email protected] move. The guy must be crazy in the head.

Pete
ps: I have no idea why people 'idiolise' and go nuts over sports people ... we only see them 'perform' their sport and then judge. Heck many football players prove themselves to be rapists, etc. and yet people still love them ... cause they can handle a ball ... ***! Now MS might be the greatest guy in the world out of a car ... but there are moments when he is questionable in the heat of the moment. He really is 100% suited to an Italian team ... either Hot and everybody loves him, or simply crazy ...
 

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deltahf_2 said:
From PlanetF1:

Keke Rosberg has admitted that he may have been a little harsh in his criticism of Michael Schumacher, following his Monaco incident, and has apologized to the German driver.
Oh yes!!!Mr Keke Rosberg!!
Τhe one, who managed to win the 1982 WC (44 points), after Pironi's(39 points) tragical accident,scoring just one win (swiss GP)!!!!
 

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Pete I respect your thoughts especially that MS is suited for an Italian team. :) LOL

I also would have liked him to have qualified without parking and possibly started in 3-4th and push for 1st. But it never happened....

I hope for rain in Britain and hopfully a nice clean pass right by Alonso.

Anyway I went overboard with my last post but I truly belive MS is wired very different than most people he can't stand to lose nor can I.

I'm not ready to put him down for his negative sides because he is truly a fine racer.

Anyway look forward to the rest of the season maybe we have awakened MS and he may be pissed off enough to push to his limit. If this is true (hoping) he will certainly win more from this point on. Hence the great hot practice laps lately.

Cheers Pete sorry if off the deep end :)

Vince
 

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In racing there is one singular cardinal rule that all racers and teams follow regardless of it being shopping trolly races all the way up through F1:

If you are not cheating you are not trying. If you get caught, you are not trying hard enough
 
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