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Discussion Starter #462 (Edited)
very nice
It must be so noisy that if you have neighbors within 1 km they will think of a new war ... you will destroy the laboratory windows

It is one of the biggest advantages of my shop that the neighbors are not too close. Before refurbishing the ceiling there was dust gushing down when it got too loud and the windows are clashing in deed (I have a couple of glass panes in stock, just in case one breaks).

You have to wear earmuffs otherwise you can´t stand it. I think I posted some video when the Flaminia hydroplane was in the shop. Maybe it touches some primary instincts, but when you open the throttle and then let loose . . . the explosions and the blue flames bursting out of the manifold, merely fantastic.

OK, we are all civilized and educated people, we do not get excited by these simple things, it is only scientific work and the only purpose is to gain perception:grin2:
 

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I too am lucky not to have neighbors too close, living in the country, a few years ago on the occasion of my degree I gave a party more than noisy !!
Surely the roar of an engine is exciting, I personally also appreciate the melody of a well balanced minimum that does not forgive defects.

About the Flaminia hydroplane, beautiful, I remember your video.
A while ago I saw a video where it was flying on the water.
 

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The Flavia engine has been repaired (new crankshaft, conrod and bearings) and installed on the new engine test stand and has been connected to the power meter. At the beginning it did not start because the ignition sequence was wrong. And I swear I did not change it!!! Once this problem had been solved, I shortly turned it up to 2500 rpm without the cooling water of the Schenck being running. The instrument did not move at all.

After turning on the water, the instrument woke up, while the engine stopped fairly quickly. The load lever of the power meter had been set too high. At that time, I got really nervous with the propshaft of the power meter idling right in front of me. Turned down the load with the remote control and started the engine again.

Did some playing with the engine revs and the power meter load but honestly was feared by the incredible noise the engine produced without exhaust installed while I had to stand very close to the rotating parts in order to operate the carburetor throttle for setting the revs. Made a few photos using the rc of the camera. The square instrument in the switch cabinet shows the revs. Engine revs and load interact and it needs some experience to balance them for correct measurement which I did not manage this time.

I made some jokes about the cable rc of the Schenck before, but now I see its legitimation. Even if you are not a milquetoast as I am it is difficult to observe the instruments, set the engine revs and the power meter load simultaneously while standing close to the roaring engine.

Each test brings a gain of knowledge! Still very many things to learn in order to get it right!

Next thing to be made is a remote control for operating the throttle and some emergency cutout to prevent going berserk of the engine. The throttle actuating will have to be sensitive and other than the pedal on the car will have to keep the position. The cutout should work on two features at least (ignition and fuel pump).

There is a spare Flaminia 2.5 3C without carbs on the shelf. I think I will install a 3B carb and put that on the meter next.

Just for reference: at maximum output (90hp) the meter should show 120N at 5500 rpm.

PS The engine frame is on wheels which allows to roll it under the chain hoist to install the engine, but during power metering it could be settled better. Will mount machine feet which can be lifted for taxiing
i might suggest a marine type throttle remote. it will hold position easily. i have a mathers micro commander on one of my vessels and it has tiny servo motors attached to lead screws for the shift and throttle. also available are programmable outputs for engine management. this would be a "fly by wire" type control. older versions can be found very reasonably priced. of course you can always engineer your own solution...
 

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Curiosity question: Does the Flavia flat 4 engine have 2 camshafts, one on each side of the crankshaft, or one camshaft and the pushrods are longer for one side of the engine than the other please?

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #467 (Edited)
Curiosity question: Does the Flavia flat 4 engine have 2 camshafts, one on each side of the crankshaft, or one camshaft and the pushrods are longer for one side of the engine than the other please?

Pete
Pete,

it has two camshafts, thus symmetric layout of the valve train.



Hubert
 

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Discussion Starter #468 (Edited)
Night life at "the Farm"

The blue Vignale is about to leave, my neighbor Marius is fumbling around on his big block and a distributor tester has arrived completing my analyzing equipment.








Many things to be done. Hot summer in the shop coming!

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Brian,

thanks for your suggestion about the marine controler. In fact I am quite far from "boats" and the technical solutions to be found there. I have already checked on ebay, there are some for sale in the UK. But as you said, I have an idea of an analogue control lever using a modified pushrod clamp. Will report once it is presentable.

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PS If you are interested in getting two twin Fulvia carbs synchronised in an unusual way have a look here (you may have to scroll down to "Terra incognita" again all in German, but the pics speak for themselves) Made a flow bench for the complete setup and adjusted the carbs on the workbench. The result is fantastic! http://www.lanciaclubdeutschland.de/index.html



Hubert
 

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Thanks Hubert.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #470 (Edited)
Flaminia distributor Marelli S82B



When checking the engine settings with the oscilloscope I frequently noticed that the ignition peaks of each cylinder did not perfectly line up. The first thought was a worn distributor shaft. After investigating a little bit about distributors, it turned out that a distributor test stand would be very helpful to evaluate the condition of a distributor, besides the fact that such a unit would add to the completion of my testing equipment.
Instead of searching for a vintage machine, which surely would have a nicer appearance, a small modern unit was acquired.
Took three Marellis from the shelf (2 S82B and one S102 for Flavia) and had a testing session.

A couple of the things that can be tested:

1. Advance curve

2. Dwell angle

3. Symmetry of ignition sparks

4. Vacuum advance curve





This is a four cylinder (Flavia)



Some additional items, adopters for different distributor shafts I made myself and attachments for electronic distributors





The first diagram shows a bad S82, the advance curve is far from factory spec and the sparking is roughly off line. The difference in angle on distributor between the earliest and the latest is 5°, that means 10° crankshaft.

The second one is much better although the dwell angle is out of spec (40°, should be 30°)

With a little practice one should be able to bring the distributor back to spec and in a next step optimizing should be rewarding.

PS revs are distributor, as are the angles measured, for crankshaft revs and angles have to be multipied by 2
 

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That will make such a difference to the drive-ability.

Pete
 

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as much as i like the old sun distributor consoles, i have to say the modern compact is the way to go. i have noticed the same thing about the peaks not being exactly lined up on my scope. this is on a distributor i have reconditioned and re-shimmed the gear for minimal play. this also has an electronic module in place of the points that has some programming for adaptable dwell angle. the only thing not reconditioned were the advance weight springs as i don't have a good way to check the advance curve. i can crudely check the curve using the advance dial timing light at different rpm values but it's far from accurate.
i may have to look into this small tester you have to add to my equipment.
 

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Discussion Starter #473
as much as i like the old sun distributor consoles, i have to say the modern compact is the way to go. i have noticed the same thing about the peaks not being exactly lined up on my scope. this is on a distributor i have reconditioned and re-shimmed the gear for minimal play. this also has an electronic module in place of the points that has some programming for adaptable dwell angle. the only thing not reconditioned were the advance weight springs as i don't have a good way to check the advance curve. i can crudely check the curve using the advance dial timing light at different rpm values but it's far from accurate.
i may have to look into this small tester you have to add to my equipment.
Other than the old devices (often Bosch in this part of the world) the modern tester is not designed for testing the high voltage part of the ignition. I have contacted the manufacturer about this. As far as i can see it should not be a problem to add a coil and a couple of spark plugs.

Hubert
 

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i agree, it shouldn't be hard at all. personally, i don't really need that as i have a good ignition scope to analyze the firing line. it's amazing how cheap those can be had as nobody wants to give up the garage space for them anymore.
but i can see the benefit of adding that to the distributor machine. i also have an old spark plug tester that would make a good companion to the distributor machine. there are actually 4 ports for plugs to fire under pressure so the entire distributor could be tested. cap,wires and all.
 

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Discussion Starter #475 (Edited)
Sounds that your equipment is fairly complete!:thumbup: I like the idea of having everything at hand when needed. And btw, my brother in law who is an electrical engineer always laughs at me and makes jokes about the analog equipment I use, especially about the scope. He says there is modern equipment with pc interface for data processing, visualising graphs and I don´t know what.

Well there is, but not in my shop!!!
 

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let your brother laugh, he's the one missing out. the old analog equipment works perfectly on the old cars it was designed for. i prefer it as well.
but i do confess, i have some diagnostic equipment for the modern stuff as well. it's impossible to diagnose can-bus without it. i think my biggest problem is i don't like the quality of workmanship i get if i have someone else work on my stuff. they never give it the level of detail that i do. so, if i have to do the work, i need the tools.
keep us posted if you add the high voltage to your tester and how you do it. i'll be interested to see how it works out.
 

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Discussion Starter #477 (Edited)
First of all I have to find out about the input element of the tester, say what is behind the black wire connected to the contact breaker. Most likely a transistor or IC followed by a simple circuit for switching the blue light at the back of the rotating aperture (blind? bezel?). Question is, will it survive a 12 Volt source for ignition and will it still work with 12V coming from outside?

Might be a good job for my brother in law to find a solution for that>:)

Additional info:

Received an answer from the manufacturer, there is a LED in the rotating disk, no aperture. Only critical thing is to keep external voltage away from it´s input.
 

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Discussion Starter #478 (Edited)
Flaminia floor panel

After the panel from underneath the rear seat had been removed half a year ago, I found the time to tackle that issue today. First attempt is to repair the original. Although “only” a floor panel there are a few challenges. Most difficult IMO is the s-shaped area with three folds back and forth. As I am using standard sheet metal, (no deep drawing quality) I thought the sheet would not make the various shrink and stretch operations. The Eckold turned out to be extremely useful for this job.











In order to keep things moving around the shop, eight tons of rubblestone have been delivered last week. They will make a nice rubble masonry.



Hubert
 

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I especially like that pale yellow rubnblestone in the background that still seems to be on wheels ...
 
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Discussion Starter #480 (Edited)
Supplier wanted



I am looking for a company that makes Nicasil coated aluminum liners for my Flaminia engine. Any advice whom to ask?

Furthermore I am preparing reproduction of rocker arms, is there anybody interested in these?





drawings are not final
 
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