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Eh !

Non è Italiano, Tedesco ??!!??
 

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Discussion Starter #343 (Edited)
End of the engine

Originally this post should have been named "status of the engine", even thought of giving it a name. "Black Pearl" would have worked as long as it is not cleaned.

Status:
broken valve spring, head plugs oxidised through and water chambers packed with deposits. No serious issues so far.

But then there was this white spot at the side of the block surrounded by all the dirt. Why was this so dry and light? Poked a little bit with the scriber . . .

and the deposit from inside started gushing out.

Black Pearl dead.











Hubert
 

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Sorry Tedesco, don't understand.

Do you consider your engine cannot be restored ?
 

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Hubert,
If you're making master/booster kits for PF 2.8, put me down for a set too, please. While I don't have another one at the moment, I still have hopes.

As for the corrosion, you have my sympathies. The soft aluminium plugs wasting away is almost normal in cases of neglect, and is simple enough. The block is another story. My late partner in crime, Mike Space, had my old Aurelia convertible, B24S-1236, that the previous owner, in the sixties, had modified by Griswold Motors in Berkeley to take a Flaminia motor, after the original motor dropped a valve. As the PF motor in it was frozen, I had given it to a friend, and found an Aurelia motor for it that had been stuffed in a Lotus Seven by Max Balchowsky, of Old Yeller fame. It had been mistreated, as well as sand and bead blasted, without any real cleaning, and was a difficult project, so Mike sourced another Flam motor to just drop in and drive, but it turned out that block was breached similarly to yours.

Rather than a complicated welding project, he bolted/epoxied an aluminium plate over the offending area, and it lasted longer than he did. It was still tight after another two owners, the last of whom converted it back to the B24 motor I had acquired for it. Unfortunately, by that time I had come to the point of view that the Flaminia motor should have stayed; as it is the car has lost its history, and is now just another "restored" Aurelia Convertible. It was a good story.

I've looked for pictures of the patch job, but can't find them as yet, I'm afraid. Hopefully that is the only hole....
Steve
 

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Hubert, Steve,

Don't know the difference in quality and casting between a Flaminia engine and an alloy Alfa 2000 Touring / Sprint.

However, pls see that block that has been re-welded, and is guaranteed.

For a very affordable and realistic price.

If you are in Europe that Hubert I think is.
 

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Thanks Danny, wish I could see the picture, but as I don't have the latest OS, I can't see many of the pictures posted.

Lancia had one of the better foundries in Italy, if not Europe, and their castings were better than most. The blocks were (pressure) die-cast, as opposed to sand-cast. I was never impressed by vintage Ferrari castings. The Alfa 2000 was cast iron, yes? The 2600 was aluminium, but I can't speak to it.

In general I prefer a real repair to a patch, and was at first appalled at what Mike had done. It was Q&D, "quick and dirty", but it did avoid preheating, warping, and cracking concerns, not to mention tearing it down and reassembling it. Plus, it held, for as long as I knew it.

-Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #348
Danny,
the block is restorable, provided there are no fatal damages down at the seatings of the cylinder liners or massive loss of material in other places. Skilled welding shops are within reach.

The perforated plugs in the heads are not too difficult to replace, as Steve said. I have done that on my Convertibile engine already

https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/other-italian-cars/218322-flaminia-convertibile-3c-5.html see post 66.

There is a reconditioned 823.00 engine which I prepared as a backup on the shelf and some more 823.00s to be rebuilt. Could take one of those. On the other hand the questioned engine is the original one, will have to make up my mind.

Steve,

I put you on the list for the kits.

Hubert
 

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Danny,
the block is restorable, provided there are no fatal damages down at the seatings of the cylinder liners or massive loss of material in other places. Skilled welding shops are within reach.

The perforated plugs in the heads are not too difficult to replace, as Steve said. I have done that on my Convertibile engine already
But you have to assume that other areas of the block are similarly worn away, surely?

So where do you start and end with repairs? ... and then after lots of money and time it falls to pieces, causing damage to other expensive parts ...

Why the heck don't people put rust inhibitor is the water?
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #350
Why the heck don't people put rust inhibitor is the water?
Pete
Pete,

even more annoying is, that when the car was still used by its owner, a major engine repair had been executed. They replaced one of the plugs and working marks can be seen on the ones remaining. The mechanic should have concluded that something was wrong with the coolant.





Furthermore the plug issue is mentioned in the workshop manual. Lancia knew about this back in the day, no wonder coming from the Aurelia.

Hubert
 

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Hubert.

I have never ever seen a problem like this! I know that a Bugatti T 40 tranversed the Sahara and a few Citroen Kegresse T 17 but I never heard from a Lancia Flaminia ( the Bugatti Wagen ) ???
Let us know please how the "sand" got in the engine .... ?
May be the driver was in the need to drink the liquid and filled the place it up which what was there arround him in masses .... for a coolant? Some people are doing craisy things under the influence of the sun, in Germany called: " ... einen Sonnenstich kriegen"
 

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Discussion Starter #352 (Edited)
Today the oil pan was removed and the block was turned over to pour out the deposits. Note the missing crank plug in pic. 3. I did not remove it! Must have been missing while the 1st owner drove the car.

Brought my liner extractor . . .

Tomorrow AlfaBB member and close friend Rafano will come over from Vienna. Two missions are on the list. Either we will play around with the MOG or we will pull the liners. Will have a good time either way.











Will picture the use of the extractor.

Hubert

BTW: The MOG suffered from a flooding, it was 6 feet under, while being in a shop for engine out services. Open engine under water, gearbox and electrics too. After the incident the shop owner refused to put the MOG together again so I had to have it collected partly disassembled and get it running myself. Getting the half ton inline six in again was not easy.
 

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what horrible luck with the mog! and quite the disservice on the part of the shop owner. i don't know the particulars of the electrics on those, but flood damage can come to haunt you again and again. the gift that keeps giving so to speak. good luck with it!
 

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Discussion Starter #354 (Edited)
Brian,

the electrics is more of the basical kind. You have the typical lights, a rev counter and an indicator signal for the compressed air. What turned out very well was that we had an unusual hot summer. That dried everything fairly quick. I had to disassemble the alternator and the starter which btw is a waterproof construction. Only one rear light is not working yet.

Did you receive my pm about the Fulvia carbs?

Hubert
 

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Discussion Starter #355
One more weird crank plug and pulling the liner next to the hole. There are thin areas in several places, I think the better way is to chose a new engine












Hubert
 

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Danny,
the block is restorable, provided there are no fatal damages down at the seatings of the cylinder liners or massive loss of material in other places. Skilled welding shops are within reach.

The perforated plugs in the heads are not too difficult to replace, as Steve said. I have done that on my Convertibile engine already

https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/other-italian-cars/218322-flaminia-convertibile-3c-5.html see post 66.

There is a reconditioned 823.00 engine which I prepared as a backup on the shelf and some more 823.00s to be rebuilt. Could take one of those. On the other hand the questioned engine is the original one, will have to make up my mind.

Hubert
Happy with that !
 

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But you have to assume that other areas of the block are similarly worn away, surely?

So where do you start and end with repairs? ... and then after lots of money and time it falls to pieces, causing damage to other expensive parts ...

Why the heck don't people put rust inhibitor is the water?
Pete
There was no anti-freeze too, on another hand...

I know about several frozen alloy blocks.
 

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Am I seeing things or is there a head stud missing, closest to the camera?

Pete
 

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Brian,

the electrics is more of the basical kind. You have the typical lights, a rev counter and an indicator signal for the compressed air. What turned out verry well was that we had an unusual hot summer. That dried everything fairly quick. I had to disassemble the alternator and the starter which btw is a waterproof construction. Only one rear light is not working yet.

Did you receive my pm about the Fulvia carbs?

Hubert
no pm received hubert, do you have my private email?
 
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