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The value of having a reference vehicle at hand cannot be overstated, and this looks to be a very nice one indeed.

Many thanks for continuing this thread, Hubert. The shop looks wonderful.

Don
 

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Discussion Starter #223 (Edited)
Paid some attention to the driver side door today, coming to some conclusions. First of all it was a mistake to remove the most rotten part of the skin before sending the car to the blast shop years ago. It became obvious upon return of the body that the "free" edge of the skin was hit by the sand blast without having support by the surrounding panel, leading to stretching. Second, the cut off panel got lost, third the lower part of the door frame is deformed as well.

Fourth, the reference car has been restored too, and although the restorer has done a good job regarding durability, he missed some of the important details Pininfarina has put in. I have checked with the profile gauge, the lower edge of the reference car door seems to be straight instead of a very slight curve one should expect due to the overall crown of the side.

Installed some "form follows function" reinforcement to the frame and made the lower part of it. It fits well but something seems to be odd about it. There are two more doors in the barn (from the scraped blue coupé), also in bad shape, but I will check their shape as well.

And by the way, how would one call this door construction? complex? ambitious? well engineered? or simply a mess?


Hubert
 

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Over engineered for the sake of complexity ;). I feel that you could say that a lot about Lancias ... a bunch of engineers getting their rocks off instead of designing what is really required.

But the word "door" is easy to say but there is a lot going on inside a car door and the fit has to be accurate as seals are involved, etc. Hopefully you do not have to deal with the hopeless seal design that 105 Alfas use ...
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #225 (Edited)
Pete,

you are absolutely right and basically the PF door does very well when adjusted correctly. When I bought the car the doors felt like "German tank" design. Although the condition of the car was as you could see from this resto diary, the doors fitted so well, closed against the old seals perfectly and sounded like closing a vault. Nevertheless this standard is reached by patching a dozen of hand cut rough panels one over the other. Part of the secret is the use of tons of "plasticine". Anyhow, it will be a challenge to get back to that level of haptics.

Hubert

PS found the same number as on the trunk floor on the door, very important:nerd:
 

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If I may, the design for construction of the door is a PF design, not a Lancia design.

That said, I have had a few PFs, and seen many others. When they are right they look and feel magnificent, but metal gets tired. Door sag can be an issue, and poor refitting, with one
corner not quite flush, absolutely spoils the surface.

That won't be the case for Hubert....


As to what is "really required", that's rather subjective, no? Myself? I'd favorably compare Lancia engineers against most contemporaries.
 

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From my perspective it is nice to see something whereby pure function is not the sole criteria. Those inner pieces of the door ensure strength and that tank like feeling by reducing movement on a large door at time of striking closed. The holes strengthen (and marginally reduce weight) plus they look good. A cheaper car would have had just W beams for reinforcing and nowhere near the number of pieces within. Nice to see something made by artisans - like yourself Hubert. Done for form and feel with no CAD. Not necessarily the most efficient way but who cares - tactility and form rules and keeps these art pieces interesting forever.
 

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actually, from a structural standpoint the door is a very good design. the diagonal brace from the bottom hinge area provides support for the trailing structure of the door. as long as the a pillar is intact, that door will fit the opening perfectly. i love it.
 

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Discussion Starter #229 (Edited)
After collecting tips and tricks from various sources, today was the day to try my first complete door skin on the English wheel. It is not finished yet, but the result achieved so far is absolutely promising. One key statement was, if you understand what you (resp. the machine) do to the material and see how it reacts (the result), you gain control and when you have control you have all you need. Maybe i am at 80% control and 20% coincidence by now.

No coincidence but simply a little bit of carelessness was the use of the vise grips causing some dents. Luckily these could be easily rolled out.

Now the bead roller has to be delivered even faster, because the bead at the door skin needs to be made with it!

Hubert
 

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Discussion Starter #230 (Edited)
Octopus

While waiting for the new equipment, there was some spare time to make a new and very useful tool. It is not my idea, but it is "freeware".

The original device has four arms, but is mounted on a slightly wider base plate. Mine had to be made of material "off the shelf". The plan was to fix it on a stand so that it can be necked. The aluminum rod used for the hinges was good for making eight arms, so two semi-octopusses were made.

For the first test, a front wing was mounted to them. It is obvious, that the wing would be a bit too big for only one of the devices, whereas the two of them fix it perfectly while it sits on the table. One could think about a versatile base, allowing to put the two base plates in different distances.

Hubert
 

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Hubert's whole place looks like artwork - love this thread
 

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So Hubert how are you going to alter that opening on the drivers side? Will you remake it or hammer it back and then reform, or will you build it up with lead and file form it?
Its looking good. Amazing from where you started from.
 

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Another milestone!
Seeing this I feel very privileged owning a original solid and rustfree car! (At least, let me think it is... underneath the paint...)
Keep up the great work!
 

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Discussion Starter #236
Richard, the grill is not positioned properly yet, it might come by 1 or 2 mms. Panelwise the new parts are exactly where the old were. They formed the mouth of the grill using a lot of lead which had been removed when rebuilding that part. It is ok to do it the same way, I think. At least it´s worth a trial.

Jones, keep yours dry and enjoy it!

Hubert
 

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Discussion Starter #237 (Edited)
Mandatory break

The project had to be paused due to some other more important topics. But at least the new equipment has arrived. There was no time for extensive testing yet, but some bead rolling on test panels was fantastic

The shrinker/stretcher and the bead roller are from LAZZE Inc, CA. They are incredibly well engineered and executed, it´s simply awesome. My Eckold shrinker is high class, (Eckold is the reference here in Europe), but the LAZZE tops it all.

Moreover, Lazze is sharing his knowhow by supplying his equipment with a set of DVDs showing how to do things right.

Lazze also does hands on workshops, but California is far away. I should definetely come over to lift my skills to a new level. Maybe before starting the next project.:smile2:

The brake also is a US brand, but made in Asia. It replaces my homemade brake, which was better than nothing, but could not handle the forces occuring very well.



Hubert
 

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LOVE the lazze equipment. did the bead roller come with euro spec motor? i also like the brake. looks like a baileigh magnetic brake. i've been thinking about changing out my box brake for one of those so i can do radius bends easier.
 

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Discussion Starter #239 (Edited)
Brian,

the bead roller has a 220V/50Hz motor, only the German plug had to be attached. This has been agreed with Lazze upon placing the order and worked fine. Although I am not one of his students, he answers my questions and explains things clearly and in detail so that you know what to do.

The brake is a Baileigh 4816M. It is executed better than I expected although the release works a bit slow (we are talking in seconds, I´d expect a reaction like switching on and off the light, clamping is fast). There was no time to extensively test it, but I have already made two short sleeves with it. At least it works, but I was not as good as the guy on the Baileigh promotion video.

Hubert
 

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ahh, good to know about the release time. that might be an issue for me. funny, i have other magnetic devices and they release very quickly. i wonder if there is something that can be done to modify that.
can't wait to see what you make with your new stuff! enjoy!
 
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