[B24Spider]

Hubert,
Sorry to be slow to answer. The hole you noticed is indeed a coolant channel. It goes vertically down to the longitudinal front to rear channel, that also ties in to the left to right channel you can see on the back of the block, with plugs on each bank. I have a display block (I presume made from a production reject) that is free of corrosion where it is clear. I will try to remember to bring my camera to the shop.
-Steve

 

[Tedesco]

Hubert,
Sorry to be slow to answer. The hole you noticed is indeed a coolant channel. It goes vertically down to the longitudinal front to rear channel, that also ties in to the left to right channel you can see on the back of the block, with plugs on each bank. I have a display block (I presume made from a production reject) that is free of corrosion where it is clear. I will try to remember to bring my camera to the shop.
-Steve

Steve,

that confirms what I guessed. It is located at cyl. no 5, left bank, last pot in front of the timing window. I´d say it goes down to the vertical channel tying the two banks But can´t find the opening at the other side.

The coolant flow is from the water pump at teh front along the liners and then going up through the heads exiting at the front/top of the inlet manifold.

I´d say the questioned hole does not affect the cooling circuit much, does it?

PS: Please show some pics of the display engine!!!

 

[Giovanni1985]

Hello Hubert, if you can interest, my 823.00 does not drain the dynamo side bank.
it may be that it has a closed hole like yours.
the engine does not show problems, it runs well and does not overheat for what I've been able to try till now.
Giovanni

 

[Tedesco]

Hello Hubert, if you can interest, my 823.00 does not drain the dynamo side bank.
it may be that it has a closed hole like yours.
the engine does not show problems, it runs well and does not overheat for what I've been able to try till now.
Giovanni

Hello Giovanni,

that is what I am expecting (meaning: no problems temperaturewise) but I am going deeper and deeper into the details and have been thinking of opening all the channels and clean them. But would have to have all the plugs made to close the channels afterwards, don´t know if it is worth it. On the other hand, there is some thoughts going on to enlarge the displacement of a Flaminia engine. In this case you will need every single milliliter of coolant flow you can get.

Will have the Schenck prepped for operation in February, time to get something to test on it.

Hubert

 

[180OUT]

Hubert, I was always told that the liners where a shrink fit and this always required the block to be heated before the liners could be removed. Did you have any trouble pulling the liners this way? Maybe Flaminia engines are more like Alfas that I thought. . .

 

[B24Spider]

Pull them cold, insert them into a hot (260-280F) block. 5/6S Aurelia also.
-Steve

 

[Tedesco]

The 2.5 engines are indeed shrink fit, the 2.8 are slip fit. The clamping force of the shrink is moderate, though. The pulling tool I have made is designed to apply enough force to do the job. Once the liner has broken free it is not a big job to extract it.

Inserting the new liners is far more challenging. I insert them cold (although workshop manual asks for warmed block) but you have to meticulosuly clean the surface of the seats and the bore before inserting the liner. It is vital to push the liner down absolutely perpendicularly, the smallest tilt will cause a failure. I have made an inserting tool that draws in the liner at right angle. Will send pictures when inserting the liners of engine 1339.
(Have done that on five or six engines by now, "proven by practice" although not certified by Lancia)


Hubert

 

[B24Spider]

With a hot block and chilled liners they drop right in. I have a puller I use to make sure they stay seated as they cool. You can use a good mallet, and an insert to protect the upper edge of the liner, but it hasn't been an issue.

Both 2.5 and 2.8 are shrink fit. I have a used kitchen oven I picked up for free from someones kitchen remodel. My wife may have been fine with using hers, but I'm not going to push my luck.

 

[B24Spider]

Hubert,
My pictures are embarrassing next to your well lit photography, but at least these ones load. I think I can upload the two pics of the complete motor and transaxle in another post.

The rear transverse passage is a coolant flow balance port. Aurelia motors had one too. It was supposed to help ensure even and sufficient flow. Silting in the V6 motors would tend to cause rear cylinders to suffer overheating before forward cylinders. Regular draining of a sufficient amount from the lower coolant tap was advised so as to flush silt.
-Steve



The front with nose.

Top view, vertical coolant hole is upper left by edge of cylinder bore #5.

Rear of block (notice empty crank bore), transverse coolant port visible. LH plug seals hole to #5 inner water jacket, same on RH to #6.

RH water jacket with hole from transverse port to cylinder #6 (not quite visible in upper picture).

LH vertical passage by cylinder #5 down to transverse port.

 

[B24Spider]

Here are old shots of a display motor and transaxle that were for sale some years ago that I passed on. I had fantasies about what might have been usable off them, but came to realize that they were mostly made from production line rejects. As you can see in the other post, the only studs installed are those necessary to hold parts on, or visible on a complete motor, and the "crank" is only a stub to hold the pulley. One block had no main caps. The whole thing is solely cosmetic. Speaking of which, regarding the bare block, that was the condition as found.

 

[Giovanni1985]

Hello Steve,
In my opinion it is difficult to imagine that such a narrow pipe connecting two rear zones with the same temperature and pressure will balance the temperature between the front and rear cylinders.
Giovanni

 

[Tedesco]

Thank you Steve,

I think I got it. The Lancia guys had their thoughts when doing things. Would be interesting to know which influence the vertical channel has on the cooling system and if it is worth opening.

You are right regarding temperature management of the rear cylinders. If you want to pump up a Flaminia engine substancially (I mean 3,2 liter and more) no 5+6 require a lot more cooling.

Hubert

 

[B24Spider]

Giovanni,
I don't have an engine laboratory, I don't know it's absolute effectiveness, I am just trying to understand the efforts of the designers. I'm also not sure that the water pump provides exactly equal pressure to both banks. With that in mind, I do try to help the motor as much as possible. I can't see it's chances as better by leaving the passage plugged with debris.

-Steve

 

[B24Spider]

On Aurelia motors, with more drilled water passages, it is, in my eye, critical. I remove the plugs and use slightly larger diameter extra long aircraft drills to clean them out, and make new flush plugs or spot face and use commercial brass plugs DIN 908.
-Steve

 

[Tedesco]

On Aurelia motors, with more drilled water passages, it is, in my eye, critical. I remove the plugs and use slightly larger diameter extra long aircraft drills to clean them out, and make new flush plugs or spot face and use commercial brass plugs DIN 908.
-Steve

Ok, that sounds as I should do the same. Was hesitating due to the various plugs that have to be made. But you are right, if you do it, do it properly!

Hubert

 

[Giovanni1985]

Steve, I totally agree that clean passages are the best thing anyway.
with an open motor I would open them for sure.
Giovanni

 

[Tedesco]

Started reassembling of engine 1339 today. The tools are inspired by the original Lancia equipment. Pictures have been taken without a liner to be inserted in order to better visualize the details of the tool.

Three liners are already installed, put them outside for a while to freeze them to minus 10°C. Winter can be fun!!! Turned them down tight with the lever seen in the pics, then gave an additional quarter turn with a 2m extension tube and let each liner settle for ten minutes. The result is a perfect line up and protrusion.

Hubert

 

[Giovanni1985]

Hi Hubert, wonderful!
How many is the protrusion?
Do you never need corrective shims below?
Giovanni

 

[Tedesco]

Hi Hubert, wonderful!
How many is the protrusion?
Do you never need corrective shims below?
Giovanni

Hi Giovanni,

the protrusion should be between 0,04 and 0,06 mm. No shims.

Hubert

 

[Tedesco]

Crank Art

Removed the crank plugs and cleaned the lubrication holes today.



Five of the plugs went easy using a big screwdriver which I hammered through the aluminum. The last one was a bit intractable but in the end it was destroyed.

Mechanically cleaned the bores, blew the rest out and cleaned them with a brush and solvent to get them really clean.

Recut the threads which are M22x1,5 and blew them down again.

I had 100 of the plugs made a while ago, fixed them with a kind of Loctite.

The shaft still is within the spec for new items so the surfaces only neede to be polished.

This crank is a piece of art!

Hubert