First gear jerkiness, checked the intake boot... ?

1115 Views 10 Replies 5 Participants Last post by AlexGS, Oct 13, 2007

euroshark

Discussion Starter · Oct 8, 2007

When I am starting off in first gear, unless I baby it along slowly, it feels like the engine is jerking and bucking around, pretty much wanting to die. I searched and found that the intake boot can tear and cause issues, so I checked it over and abused it a little bit with the engine idling but it seems to be fine. I'm replacing this anyway because I have had similar experiences with my Bimmers and learned my lesson.

I started looking at the torque arm bushings and they seem pretty questionable seeing as the car has 135,000 miles on it. I adjusted the arm to be slightly (1/8" at most) shorter and the problem was dramatically better. Is this a common issue with these cars? Just too much torquing once the bushings go I guess...

International auto has one of the bushings available and one listed as "call for availability"...

Think I should just try the new boot for now or go ahead and try to track down both bushings for the torque arm as well?

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AlfaRomeo1750

· #2 · Oct 8, 2007

From what you are describing, both are likely bad. With a shot bushing, the engine rocks a lot forward and back... that puts strain on the main intake hose. Over time that causes a rip in the accordion section, and lets in false air on initial take off as the engine rocks.

Quick test is to wrap the accordion hose with electrical or vinyl tape... then drive... especially if you cant visually account for an air leak.. if its better.. you know the cause... but be wary of torquing down on the mounts... as putting more pressure on one will put strain on the others BIG TIME... (Ask me know I know)...

I hope this helps.
Cheers
Martin.

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MrT

· #3 · Oct 8, 2007

I've seen mention that a broken small end bushing can be a sign of a broken right front mount. You might check that one, too. This happened on our '91L. I repaired the torque rod bushing and it wouldn't stay put. Finally looked at the right front motor mount below, and it was toast. Replaced it, and the torque rod bushing repair remained intact.

By the way, this car was randomly shutting off at idle, too. I'd come to a stop light or other obstruction, it would establish proper idle, and then every once in a while would simply quit without a cough. Sounded like something electrical, so I replaced the crank sensor with a spare I had in hand. Worked, or seemed to for a few days, then back to the old tricks (good thing I didn't throw the old one away as the cause of it all). After I replaced the mount, this problem disappeared. Steve is a great champion of the idea that you should never throw Alfa parts away until they turn to dust and have to be swept up. This is one example of why.

Michael

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modena782002

· #4 · Oct 9, 2007

I had the same problem with my S a couple of years ago. Both my mounts, bushings, and intake hose were bad. At the time, "S" intake hoses weren't available, so I did a "work around" by cutting an inner tube, and slipping it over the split hose. I drove the car for about a year with bad mounts, but at least the car was now running right. I understand that shoe goo works also for repairing the hose. Last year, Jason at Alfissimo had some "S" hoses available (he may still have them) and I quickly ordered one. Shortly after that, I took care of the mounts and bushings because I didn't want my new hose to be subjected to any more stress than necessary.

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euroshark

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 10, 2007

I just priced new mounts... Can anyone say WOW!!

The lower ones together cost more than the cylinder head gasket set AND the machining for my BMWs 3.5!

Guess I'll try replacing the torque arm bushings along with the intake boot and pray that I don't have to replace all of the other mounts.

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MrT

· #6 · Oct 10, 2007

If that front mount is broken, it will be _very_ apparent on visual inspection. It will be in pieces. Some have tried modifying the Saab 9000 mounts, but the results haven't been stellar. "Use the Search, Luke!" if you want to check it out.

Michael

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AlexGS

· #7 · Oct 11, 2007 (Edited)

wikidchikin said:
I just priced new mounts... Can anyone say WOW!!

The lower ones together cost more than the cylinder head gasket set AND the machining for my BMWs 3.5!

Guess I'll try replacing the torque arm bushings along with the intake boot and pray that I don't have to replace all of the other mounts.

When I raised this subject a month or two back, Jason (Alfissimo) had the best solution. http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=47244&highlight=saab

I also re-discovered a source for the $29.90 oil-filled Saab mount. Not the same as the solid Saab mount that others have modified/used, I think the oil-filled mount (intended for earlier Saabs) will be easier to fit height-wise, but a hole needed drilling out in the 164's engine bracket.

-Alex

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MrT

· #8 · Oct 12, 2007

I still have two of those oil-filled Saab mounts and will try the die-based re-threading some day. I don't have any crying need for new mounts just now, but that may change. I have more things to do before the speculative mount mod, though. My thoughts on how are in the thread Alex linked just above.

Michael

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AlexGS

· #9 · Oct 12, 2007

MrT said:
I still have two of those oil-filled Saab mounts and will try the die-based re-threading some day. I don't have any crying need for new mounts just now, but that may change. I have more things to do before the speculative mount mod, though. My thoughts on how are in the thread Alex linked just above.

Michael

Absolutely - thanks Michael, sorry I should have qualified my post to say that 'Jason has the best solution for original mounts, much cheaper than elsewhere'. Your input on the other thread was much appreciated!

-Alex

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MrT

· #10 · Oct 12, 2007

Alex, I wasn't claiming any credit for the Saab mount idea-- just mentioning that I have vague and variable plans for modifying the stud. Some have suggested, quite reasonably, slicing it off and drilling/tapping the hole. I was nervous about this for the fluid filled mount, as I didn't really want to penetrate the oil filled area. So I was reduced by cowardliness to either drilling out the A/C mount (as you mentioned) or reducing the stud diameter and re-threading. I expect to do the latter -- someday. I just wanted any folks more activated than I to think about the options. I'm delighted to have seen the suggestions about Saab 9000 mounts earlier. I'd never have dug up the info myself. But if I can help someone get further along by sharing my speculations, more power to him.

Michael

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AlexGS

· #11 · Oct 13, 2007

MrT said:
I expect to do the latter -- someday. I just wanted any folks more activated than I to think about the options. I'm delighted to have seen the suggestions about Saab 9000 mounts earlier. I'd never have dug up the info myself. But if I can help someone get further along by sharing my speculations, more power to him.

Exactly - so now it's just a matter of waiting to see which of us needs a new front mount first

I have a feeling that I'd just go with Jason's OEM solution though - price of $180 not all that excessive in the big scheme of things.

I very-much enjoyed your bent-rod poetry on that other thread about the nasty water damage, by the way.

-Alex

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