[mathcg]

Finally, after 4-1/2 years of a complete restoration our our '67 GTV (always in my family - but new to my son & I), it was time to attempt to start the our beautiful "new" car [see picture]!

Providing some background:

• Car last driven in 1999 / last started in 2001,
• Complete restoration - metal work, body prep and paint (medio cobalt blu - AR324), etc...
• Rebuilt engine, gearbox, steering box, differential, steering, front / rear suspension, etc...
• New interior, restored "wood-grain" dash, restored gauges, etc...
• New wheels / rubber (Pirelli CN36's),
• New brakes, brake lines, etc...
• New gas tank, gas line, etc...
• New wiring including generator to dynator conversion, coil, starter, new switches, bulbs, etc...
• And, anything else that was necessary.

So, on to system check-out and first fluids:

• Complete continuity check of all wiring (handful of issues - but all sorted),
• New premium fuel,
• New oil,
• Distilled water in radiator.

On to first fire:

1. Plugs out, cranked engine for 3 - 20 second bursts,
2. Fuel - got fuel to filter / carbs,
3. Oil - got oil pressure,
4. Distributor turning (took cap off to see),
5. NO SPARK - not from wires or coil...

So, now what to do???

• It seems like everything is wired correctly (other than perhaps the generator to dynator conversion - which I think is correct, but lacking a good wiring diagram for this)
• Distributor is the same one that came in the car (including points / condenser). We intend to switch to an electronic ignition (123), but we wanted to see if we could start it with the stock distributor.
• I'm sure the distributor's points / condenser aren't great - but, this has nothing to do with getting a spark - does it???

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Best regards, Chuck

 

[mathcg]

Picture I forgot to send...

 

[samakijoe]

I may sound "snarky" at times but that's just my way. We all are here to help out.
We were all "newbies' at one time or another. So...

First thing I would do is insure that there is 12v DC where it is supposed to be when the key is
turned on and when the key is off..

And yes the distributor's points / condenser have every thing to do with getting (a good) spark.
I assume you have Webers so we don't have to deal with the Spica systems....

You said "new wiring". Does that mean that you replaced all the wiring one at a time or did you buy
a complete wire harness? Does that mean new fuse assembly? The fuse holders on these things are a pain in
the you know where. Clean the contacts, check for good contact using a volt meter.
Was the engine run on a test bed?

There's a lot of questions to be addressed. Keep the info coming.

BTW: The car is really stunning. That's my new favorite color.

And no the hood doesn't close any further. That's way it was built...

Great father-son project.

 

[Alfamale 62]

Are you getting 12 volt to coil when cranking the engine?
Try squirting some fuel into the carbs does it try to fire then?
Are you getting a spark at the plugs? If yes is it at the correct time? I.e. cyl 1 at just before TDC with cam lobes pointing outwards

 

[mathcg]

samakijoe / Alfamale 62, thanks for your responses - I'll attempt to reply to all your comments:

12V's: I believe we have 12V where we're supposed to,
Distributor: I know that the points / condenser are key to a good spark - I don't even have a spark coming off the coil...
Webers: Definitely Weber 40's - rebuilt by Raymond Gordon (beautiful!),
Wiring: New wiring harness - however, as I said, I've checked for continuity everywhere and all seems to be good (lights, gauges, switches, starter, etc...). I did have a few grounding issues - but, those have been sorted...
Fuse Block: Not a new fuse block - but completely cleaned and checked for continuity (with each wire connection)
Engine: My son and I rebuilt the engine - other than the head which was done by Colorado Custom Cylinder Heads. It was not run on a test bed - so, this is our 1st attempt to start the engine.
12V to coil when cranking engine: We did check this - it seemed like it was more like 10V+/- when cranking...
Fuel at the Carbs: We definitely have fuel up to the fuel filter (it was about 1/2 full - which seems to be normal). Not sure if we have fuel all the way into the carbs - this was going to be the next thing we tested when we figured out that we had no spark.
Spark at the plugs: No, definitely no spark at plugs - nor any spark coming off the main lead from the ignition coil.
Engine Timing: We spent a considerable amount of time making sure we got the spark plug wires correct. We ensured, with the cam cover off, both #1 cams pointing outwards, rotor pointing at #1 spark plug wire - all with a 1-3-4-2 wiring scheme. With no spark, we haven't checked engine timing yet. [Picture of engine attached]

I think that's everything - hopefully my answers will lead somewhere. For example, I'm thinking there may be some sort of issue as it didn't seem that we had 12V at the coil (we had 10V+/-) when cranking the engine...

Thanks in advance, Chuck

 

[samakijoe]

When you say that there is not a spark at the plugs, did you pull the wire off the center of the
distributer to see if there is a spark. (this a good time to show your son what it's like getting zapped
feels like, so let him hold the the metal end of the wire while checking to see if the valve cover is on tight
with the other hand. (every new trainee should get to experience this at least once,)...
If nothing else, to show him that he will not die...

Missing rotor under the cap? (been there, done that)

Are the points in the old dizzy clean and working. Check with ohm meter.
(loosen dizzy, rotate back and forth, to see if they really open and close, should be close to dead short when closed,
then hopefully get back in good timing.)

 

[mathcg]

When you say that there is not a spark at the plugs, did you pull the wire off the center of the
distributer to see if there is a spark. (this a good time to show your son what it's like getting zapped
feels like, so let him hold the the metal end of the wire while checking to see if the valve cover is on tight
with the other hand. (every new trainee should get to experience this at least once,)...
If nothing else, to show him that he will not die...

Missing rotor under the cap? (been there, done that)

Are the points in the old dizzy clean and working. Check with ohm meter.
(loosen dizzy, rotate back and forth, to see if they really open and close, should be close to dead short when closed,
then hopefully get back in good timing.)

Thanks for your comments,

• Definitely have a rotor,
• no spark coming off the coil’s center lead, and
• I’ll check to see if the points are opening and shutting...

more to follow...

Chuck

 

[alfaparticle]

Sounds like either the points or the condensor. The points gap is easy to check with a feeler gauge but it is next to impossible to tell if the condensor is good except by replacing it with a new one. Sadly, new ones are no longer made by reliable manufacturers and they might not work properly or they may fail after a short time which is why so many people switch to electronic distributors.

 

[squirrelman1]

the 12v wire lead into distributor needs careful assembly to be sure it's insulated from the body and not grounded out.

 

[pescara]

Check for ground everywhere.

Change the ignition coil and the condo.

Let us know.

 

[Alfamale 62]

Connect a 12v bulb from battery to negative coil terminal with points open the bulb should be off if it's on you have a grounding issue if that's ok Put a temporary cable from battery + to coil plus and ground the coil negative each time you ground to negative you should get a spark from the coil HT lead if you don't you need a new coil if you do get a spark try starting the engine with the hot wired coil if that fails swap out the condenser
Don't leave the temp hot wire connected without engine running it's ok for a few mins but don't forget to remove it
Your wasting time looking at fuel if you don't have a spark

 

[PSk]

I don't understand the comment regarding spark coming of the coils centre lead. It is the points that make the spark, but to test what you are saying you sound like you have pulled the coil lead ... not the right way to test; you won't see a spark that way.

Remove number 1 plug, plug the lead on and put it on the cam cover and crank the starter and see if the plug sparks.

Also the ignition timing is more complex than just the cylinder firing order being correct, the distributor has to timed to spark at the right time in the 4 stroke cycle.

Good luck
Pete

 

[divotandtralee]

Does the engine have a ground strap to the body? usually overlooked .. It is a braided metal ribbon attached to the chassis at or near the bell housing in the vicinity of the starter

 

[alfaparticle]

I don't understand the comment regarding spark coming of the coils centre lead.

That is the way to test if the coil is making spark energy - it takes the rotor and cap out of the question.
Also, a missing ground strap would almost certainly prevent the starter from spinning.

 

[divotandtralee]

Also, a missing ground strap would almost certainly prevent the starter from spinning.

good point

 

[squirrelman1]

get sparks first then work on timing next.

 

[PSk]

That is the way to test if the coil is making spark energy - it takes the rotor and cap out of the question.

Never seen or heard of this being done before. Should work backwards, and start at spark plug
Pete

 

[goats]

My guess would be distributor ground wire broken or not connected to coil ground. You can test the condenser (sort of) with a ohmmeter.
if there’s no spark at all, is the dist rotor turning? This should be easy to suss out. Check the wiring , you probably have a resistor on the coil. Is it dead shorted?

 

[goats]

Because he is manually touching power to the coil, he is acting like the points.

 

[divotandtralee]

My '65 died after a time trial...would not fire .. Distributor wire fell off the spade connector