Alfa Romeo Forums banner

41 - 60 of 72 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,915 Posts
I'm cool with the electric conversion, but why bastardize the car with suspension conversions. Sad. It will no longer be an Alfa

There's an Alfa Spider, on this site, that has been converted but still retains its soul, and can always be converted back.

So why not convert a BMW 2002 instead of hacking up an Alfa?
Pete
 
  • Like
Reactions: P-3

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Agreed. A restored GTV goes in the $30~60K range now. Stripping one to a bare shell in order to hack junk car suspension and an electric motor on to it is rather a perverse use of human energy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Del

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
47 Posts
Holy curveball with the engine and suspension changes! I feel like that should have been disclosed at the beginning of this restoration thread. wipes away lone tear from left eye:cry:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Holy curveball with the engine and suspension changes! I feel like that should have been disclosed at the beginning of this restoration thread. wipes away lone tear from left eye:cry:
Here Here.... good thing I saw this post before I ate. Why is this person even allowed to be here? Destroying an iconic collector car before our eyes.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,072 Posts
Got to the part where he talks about converting the poor car to electric, and thought, cr*p, another one down the drain. I'm out of here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #46
I'm cool with the electric conversion, but why bastardize the car with suspension conversions. Sad. It will no longer be an Alfa
Replacing the diff with the Leaf motor/gearbox will give me the best packaging, but it won't play nicely with a live-axle suspension. The E30 bolt pattern (4x100) is very close to the Alfa's, easy to modify the Alfa wheels so they will work with the new hubs. Would you feel better if I was using the suspension from a newer Giulia?

You did make a whole post questioning Alfa's design choices for the 105 rear suspension, after all.

The rest of you, I hope there was a couch nearby when you fainted.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
47 Posts
@joeording I will continue to follow this thread—I'm in too deep. Curious to see what the final performance is like, gas mileage, engine soun....will this thing even make noise?! :unsure:
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,915 Posts
Replacing the diff with the Leaf motor/gearbox will give me the best packaging, but it won't play nicely with a live-axle suspension. The E30 bolt pattern (4x100) is very close to the Alfa's, easy to modify the Alfa wheels so they will work with the new hubs. Would you feel better if I was using the suspension from a newer Giulia?

You did make a whole post questioning Alfa's design choices for the 105 rear suspension, after all.

The rest of you, I hope there was a couch nearby when you fainted.
So ruin a BMW then.

BTW: I've corrected the name of this thread and moved it. Again I'm not against electric conversions but when converting an old car, respect should be shown, not maximising packaging. Go and convert some replaceable modern thing and leave the classic cars to us enthusiasts!

Honestly with the annoying engine conversion people, the racers that kill one every so many years (but this is bearable), rust and now we have greenies going out of their way to hack up these wonderful old cars .....errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Pete
 
  • Like
Reactions: Del

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Wow. Really? Why all the demonization of what this guy is doing? There are some individuals and companies doing some very well executed EV conversions out there, and it's not THAT big of a stretch to think in some parts of the world these cars will be regulated off the road due to emissions in the not too distant future. So maybe EV swaps will extend their driving life in some way.

Regardless, with all due respect, I think it's a slippery slope when a post gets moved because it appears it doesn't meet the personal taste of an admin (which is plainly evident.) I for one would like to see the post moved back to the primary GT forum (the only one I frequent) so we can follow along, even if it's not everybody's cup of tea. I think we will all benefit and enjoy an encouraging forum environment vs. one which is overly judgmental and divisive.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,915 Posts
Note I'm all for electric conversions but that can be done by retaining most of the original car. There is no need to put the engine in rear and patch in BMW rear suspension. Conversions of old cars should be done so it can be converted back. Yes this is my opinion, but we are all here because we like these cars.

This thread should always have been in the Engine Conversion section, I was simply correcting the OPs mistake. BUT I have done some research and the wonderfully sympathetic electric conversion of a Spider is in the Spider section, so I've moved this thread back.

I wish the owner well
Pete
 
  • Like
Reactions: joeording

·
Registered
Joined
·
525 Posts
Haha yeah, that angle doesn't give me warm fuzzies. I found a good used front crossmember on eBay, hopefully I can un**** whatever is happening there. I'm very curious to see what this thing looks like with the suspension out of the way and the grime cleaned off. And yes, the wavy frames aren't too scary because they are avail repro, which is nice. I'll have great access to try beating those into shape when the rusty floors are cut out.

Going to do some more work this rainy weekend, maybe I will get the engine/trans out?
things looks better/simpler with everything stripped and blasted.
You have angle iron in parts I had fresh air 😀
It’s a long enjoyable journey - I’m half way through my estimated 10years of sporadic weekend working.
I’ve had spells of activity and other times I did nothing for a couple of months. Just stay positive and don’t dream of it being finished, just finishing the job that you are on...and it will slowly come together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,506 Posts
Yes, restomods and conversions are a slippery slope for categorization. If this thread is moved elsewhere, then what about putting a Ferrari engine in an Alfa? I’m all for originality, but I do respect an owner’s prerogative to do as they please with their car, time and money. I think the community, all communities, benefit from its diversity. I doubt I would read this GTV story if placed elsewhere. And this GTV is in better hands now as evidence from the botched repairs performed in the past.

@PSk Thanks for moving this back to the GTV section.
@joeording I’m interested to see how it al turns out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Thanks PSK. Appreciate you being flexible
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,072 Posts
Usually these conversions don't work out all that well because the original car is not designed properly for the amount and location of a sufficient (and weighty) number of batteries, as the Tesla is, which would give any kind of decent range and weight distribution. Plus, if a redesign is done to incorporate more batteries, the original chassis usually ends up modified as to be very likely unrestoreable back to the original.

Since he will be losing the great sounds of the Alfa engine, maybe he will have recordings of the sounds tied into the radio system, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #56
It's good to back in the main GTV forum, those engine conversion guys are crazy! Did you see that S4 Spider? Wild!

My goal is to preserve as much of the look and feel of a GTV as possible while converting it to electric drive. I would forgive the pearl-clutching if this was a rare, highly valuable car, but it's not. GTVs are great cars, this particular one happens to be a piece of crap. So I'm going to have some fun with it, sort of like the guys who made a 'safari' Alfa from the one that fell off a truck. Cheers to those who are excited to see how this goes. So am I!

Somebody mentioned weight, which is obviously a concern when you have to hide ~500lb of batteries in a 2000lb car. It's going to gain some weight. It'll also gain some power...

To keep the weight gain to a minimum, I don't want to do the usual and just plop an electric motor onto the gearbox and keep the rest of the drivetrain intact. It's the easiest method, but the transmission is just dead weight and the final drive ratio of the diff is wrong for the electric motor by itself. I can cut all that weight out and put the motor/gear reduction at the back, but it's not going to be happy as a stock live axle flopping around for many reasons (significantly more unsprung weight, how are the high-voltage cables going to like flexing around, etc.) so that's not really an option.

Changing the rear suspension seems like the best option. Less unsprung weight than the factory setup, better geometry. Somewhere to hang the drivetrain and hubs with axles I can adapt to the gearbox. I looked at some of the newer Alfa stuff so I could 'keep it in the family' but the cars that I could find locally and cheap enough to eviscerate are 164s with struts and a giant transaxle that would be harder to adapt.

Instead, I've narrowed it to two contenders. In this corner, the E30 semi-trailing arm rear suspension. Advantages: compact, easy to fit. Disadvantages: geometry not as good, and not as adjustable. In the other corner, the Miata double-wishbones. Advantages: best geometry, lots of aftermarket parts for adjustability. Disadvantages: bulkier, trickier to mount.

I went to the junkyard and got both:

Next time: I'll do some measurin' and figurin' and maybe try to maneuver these under the car to see how things line up.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,915 Posts
These cars are rare. Alfa Romeo is/was a small company. They are not GM or Ford, pumping out thousands a day.

I must say if you feel so lowly re your GTV, how about selling it to somebody else. We ALL have to remember, just because you feel an Alfa Romeo GTV is a rubbish car not worth saving, there are people, for whatever personal circumstances, that would dearly love to own this car. It's like the Ferrari replica people that think all Ferrari 250 GTE's are pieces of rubbish and the best use of them is to make GTO replicas out of them ... I'd dearly love to be able to own a GTE ... :( ... but couldn't even afford to purchase an exhaust system for one.

You could have just as much fun electrifying a BMW 320 or a Alfa 156 ... they are modern cars that have not yet reached, if they ever will, classic or historic status.

BUT in the end it is your car, but please don't talk about it with such lack of emotion ... can't understand anybody owning an Alfa Romeo thinking it's a piece of crap, and has not bonded with it. It's 50 years old and needs some love to be perfect, der. It is actually amazing that any car lasts 50 years without being written off ...
Pete
 
  • Like
Reactions: Del

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,506 Posts
There are still good GTV examples out there and they aren’t that rare that someone couldn’t buy one here in the US... they regularly show up on Bring a Trailer just as this GTV had.

I think it presumptuous to say that the OP feels that the car is rubbish and not worth saving. On the contrary, modifications like this are giving this poorly repaired GTV a second life and probably appreciation from a different and developing market segment that might not otherwise know much about Alfa’s. (There‘s a white Spider electric conversion in the SF Bay Area that always draws a crowd at the local CnC’s). I certainly wouldn’t have bought this car, nor would I convert to electrical. My thing is original and unmolested classic cars. But it’s not my car... To each his own. If you don’t like it, don’t follow the thread.

It could be worse... the car could have wound up with the Hoonigans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
where to start....

to the OP: good on you for doing what YOU want with YOUR car. And if need be, almost anything can be restored back to original should another owner(!) want to in the future. I've owned a similar beater years ago which is now being restored back to original, and that had a lot of nasty stuff done to it over the years.

These are not rare cars: over a quarter of a million were built. An ARNA, is a 5x rarer car and I think no-one would object to you cutting one of those up... A MK1 prius: same thing.

Suspension: a big bonus for the beemer setup is that it feeds the forces into the chassis at mostly the same places as the original stuff does. trailing arms and upright springs mean you'd not need a lot of structure behind the axle centerline. Which in a 105 is non-existent anyway... The MX5 unit will need some serious fabrication for the aftmost mounting points.
 
41 - 60 of 72 Posts
Top