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Discussion Starter #1
Another thread dedicated to Zagato bodied Fiat 1400 (primarily) has become side-tracked with discussions of the Siata 103 & 103TV versions based on Fiat 1100/103 chassis. This will hopefully serve as a place to discuss these cars and correct some mistaken impressions?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
1954 Siata 1100GT

Moved from 1400 Zagato thread:

I had a look in the files that are in the computer and found a few photos that may be of interest?

First, a photo from a book published 1954. "Sports Cars" by A.L. Conley has all kinds of interesting photos from Italian specialty builders circa 1950-53. On this early 1100GT from Siata, it is hard to tell if there is any badging whatsoever. But, there may be something on the rocker-panel to the rear of the door. Another photo of a different car will follow.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
unidentified Vignale GT

Also forwarded from the 1400 Zagato thread:

Probably from 1955 or 1956. It is less certain that it is a "Siata". Probably so, but there may have been a few "Fiat" versions from Vignale as well?

I did not record the source of this photo. Perhaps taken from the internet at some point?

The Vignale badge and script are definitely placed rather unobtrusively on the rear rocker-panel.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Quattroruote 1956

And another from the 1400 Zagato thread:

Quattroruote magazine, 1956. Apologies for the poor photo.

1100/103 Gran Turismo
1100/103 T.V. Gran Turismo
1250 Gran Turismo

Most 1250GT cars identified so far were bodied by Zagato in a brief attempt to compete in the GT1300 category against Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint and SVZ. Some of the 1250GT Siata cars were reduced to 1100cc after a short time so that they could remain competitive in the GT1100 sub-category. But, a 1250GT road car was also possible and probably made for a nice car. They were taxed at a "15HP" rating instead of "13HP".
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Fiat-Siata 103TV N. 112xxx from 1955

And another:

This car has been called "berlinetta SIATA" and later this was revised to "Vignale". It has been homologated by ASI as a "1954" when it is almost certain to be a 1955.

Here are two photos taken a couple of years apart. They are shown in the order I received them but I don't actually know which photo was taken first. The decals in the window imply that they are in time-line order. In one photo, the car is "clean" and in another it has various elaborations, including a full-sized Siata badge on the rocker panel.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Fiat-Siata 103TV N. 149xxx from 1955

And one more:

Another 1955 car.

Here is a car that has a registration record in Turin that specifically states "Carrozzeria Siata". This doesn't prove that Vignale didn't do some of the build. Now in Japan. Or at least, until recently. It was offered earlier this year.
 

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Nothing about double bubble

I didn't find any mention, in this nor other threads on Siata Zagato 1100/103 tv or 1250 gtz, about "double bubble" variant.
I would find some infos because I found one with double bubble, 1956.
Pep
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Zagato "Double Bubble" on 1100/103 platform

Hello Pepmecc,

Yes, there was at least one example that was "doppia gobba" for a time. Which car are you looking at?

John
 

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Nothing about double bubble

I have it, is an heritage by my uncle who bought it in 1964. On docs is written "Fiat 1100 103 TV" but the frame is not the same of that model, more similar to 1250 GTZ but with "doppia gobba". I found just one picture and I'm pretty sure that is the same car, see image below. I'm try to restore and discover the real value.
Pep
 

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Has your car a standard chassis or a tubular chassis? It could be, but without a pic it's impossible to say, one of the 3/4 1100TV (engine enlarged by Stata) built for the Racing club 19 of Turin. We need more informations, take also a pic of the engine, please.
 

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It isn't the car I told you before, definitively. It seems to me a 1100/1250 GTZ, check the engine to confirm.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
103TV Zagato DB, race #142

The photo shared by "Pepmecc" a few postings back seems to show chassis 103TV*301439 (chassis born 24 January 1957) which was taxed as an 1100cc car during each of its race outings with Carlo Pittoni. The PRA record shows the chassis priced at lire 720.000 and the Zagato body at lire 600.000. There is no mention of "SIATA" in the record. There is a published photo of the car in a Zagato book that is captioned "SIATA 1250Z" but the PRA record would seem to indicate the caption was erroneous. Carlo Pittoni did race his car in the GT1300 category on occasion and it would be easy to assume that it might have been 1250cc. I can easily believe that there were some special chassis modifications done to some cars, but I am unaware that there was a specific modification that can be attributed as "Siata 1250". One Siata 1250 Zagato I saw some years ago seemed to have a rather normal Fiat 1100/103 subframe.

Here are two photos of 103TV*301439* on the Trento - Bondone of 1959.

Now, the question I have is, "Is the car owned by "Pepmecc" the same car?"
 

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The photo shared by "Pepmecc" a few postings back seems to show chassis 103TV*301439 (chassis born 24 January 1957) which was taxed as an 1100cc car during each of its race outings with Carlo Pittoni. The PRA record shows the chassis priced at lire 720.000 and the Zagato body at lire 600.000. There is no mention of "SIATA" in the record. There is a published photo of the car in a Zagato book that is captioned "SIATA 1250Z" but the PRA record would seem to indicate the caption was erroneous. Carlo Pittoni did race his car in the GT1300 category on occasion and it would be easy to assume that it might have been 1250cc. I can easily believe that there were some special chassis modifications done to some cars, but I am unaware that there was a specific modification that can be attributed as "Siata 1250". One Siata 1250 Zagato I saw some years ago seemed to have a rather normal Fiat 1100/103 subframe.

Here are two photos of 103TV*301439* on the Trento - Bondone of 1959.

Now, the question I have is, "Is the car owned by "Pepmecc" the same car?"
Hi John,
well, yes is the same car! I'm very impressed by you knowledge, the car's docs have the stamp date march 1957. Btw, every Siata-Zagato 1250 GTZ I found on the Net has not the "double bubble", this is the reason why I was pretty convinced that this car could be a kind of "prototype".
Last wed I was in Brescia for Millemiglia start and I saw just a classic 1100/103 TV.

Not easy...
Thanks
P
 

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Hi John,
well, yes is the same car! I'm very impressed by you knowledge, the car's docs have the stamp date march 1957. Btw, every Siata-Zagato 1250 GTZ I found on the Net has not the "double bubble", this is the reason why I was pretty convinced that this car could be a kind of "prototype".
Last wed I was in Brescia for Millemiglia start and I saw just a classic 1100/103 TV.

Not easy...
Thanks
P
Hi John,

Btw, I would ask you if you have any other pics or notice about that model around the world: 1250 GT "double bubble" (1250 GTZ was clean, without doppia gobba). That's because I was not able to find any. Also the pic on the site "Zagato-cars.com" (manage by Dutch guy, not by Zagato), is related to my car, I discover that because of a dent on the left light.
Thanks in advance
P
 
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