[nomoreplaces]

Hello Gentlemen!

After hesitating somewhat in the beginning, I got inspired by these forums to bring a slightly abandoned 1986 GTV-6 2.5L up to working order and then some.

The car had been sitting in my grandmother's garage for about 7 years, covered and in a desert climate so those conditions were ideal. It was NOT drained of fluids properly so its going to need fuel lines and pump cleaned and some love under the hood. Also some minor body work in front (nose, radiator grill, headlight) as some jerk had backed into it in a truck while it was parked right before it got stored. But really, the body and interior and essential elements are original insofar as I can tell, pretty cherry condition despite it having 105K on the odometer. This is mainly due to it having meticulous owners before, all in California.

What I am wondering about with this car is what are the best incremental upgrades one could do to both improve its driving performance and resale value?

(not that I want to part with it immediately)

I keep hearing about the 2.8L conversion which sounds great as I always found it a bit disappointing on the torque relative to my BMWs from this era.

I respect Alfas as Alfas and do NOT want to do bad aftermarket modifications true enthusiasts would not approve of.

So, if you have some tips (very curious to hear also what people favor in the way of wider wheels for this model) I would be greatly appreciative to hear!

Will post more pics ASAP than this dash shot. I am currently on the East Coast and need to get back out West to haul the car to San Francisco where I am doing the initial work with Carlo Cestarollo at Alfa Center.

Thanks ahead of time!

-Patrick

 

[alfajp]

Congrats on bringing a GTV6 back to life. Take a look at threads with my username, I have a couple on bringing back a mostly dead GTV6.

Good news is an 86 has the better electrics. Go to Greg Gordon's site (was not working for me today for some reason) for LJectronic troubleshooting. On engine, I recommend finding a good 164L 3L engine and build that up versus messing with expanding a 2.5L to 2.8L. HeavyMetalAlfa and Alfaparticle should become your new best friends. They will forget more about GTV6s than I will ever learn.

Good luck and keep us posted!

JP


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[alfaloco]

Good questions there, Patrick, on the best upgrades in character with the GTV 6. Our son Mike and I worked on his '86 for three years, bringing it back from storage in New Mexico.

In my opinion, the things that you will appreciate the most (besides a 3 liter motor, of course), are:

1) headlight relays -- there's a ton of information here on that topic.
2) better Euro code headlights, H1 and H4, with appropriate bulb fitments of your choice.
3) retain the A/C system... it will help the car's resale value by broadening its appeal.
4) Either resurrect the Tropic Air factory air conditioning system, or fit an aftermarket under dash Mini Gen heat/cool unit from Vintage Air. Also replace the OEM condenser with a VA parallel flow condenser.
5) Drop the front end slightly to European ride height, but not excessively. Align front end.
6) Fit a new radio/stereo head with Bluetooth capability (Mike bought a Pioneer unit).
7) Fit KONI yellow shocks.
8) Fit Ferodo DS2500 brake pads.
9) Replace the brake and clutch hoses with braided stainless steel/teflon core hoses, and fit Speedbleeders all around.
10) Clean and lube the Isostatic shift linkage mechanisms.
11) Add a relay to the ignition switch circuit, so the relay is energized by the key but the main loads go through the relay contacts. Again, lots of information on this here.
12) I offer you (attached) the electrical preventive maintenance procedures we used for Mike's car, which produced immediate results in terms of overall electrical operation, and even better engine idling/running. And any aluminum fuses you see, pull them out and throw them away!

 

[nomoreplaces]

Good questions there, Patrick, on the best upgrades in character with the GTV 6. Our son Mike and I worked on his '86 for three years, bringing it back from storage in New Mexico.

In my opinion, the things that you will appreciate the most (besides a 3 liter motor, of course), are:

1) headlight relays -- there's a ton of information here on that topic.
2) better Euro code headlights, H1 and H4, with appropriate bulb fitments of your choice.
3) retain the A/C system... it will help the car's resale value by broadening its appeal.
4) Either resurrect the Tropic Air factory air conditioning system, or fit an aftermarket under dash Mini Gen heat/cool unit from Vintage Air. Also replace the OEM condenser with a VA parallel flow condenser.
5) Drop the front end slightly to European ride height, but not excessively. Align front end.
6) Fit a new radio/stereo head with Bluetooth capability (Mike bought a Pioneer unit).
7) Fit KONI yellow shocks.
8) Fit Ferodo DS2500 brake pads.
9) Replace the brake and clutch hoses with braided stainless steel/teflon core hoses, and fit Speedbleeders all around.
10) Clean and lube the Isostatic shift linkage mechanisms.
11) Add a relay to the ignition switch circuit, so the relay is energized by the key but the main loads go through the relay contacts. Again, lots of information on this here.
12) I offer you (attached) the electrical preventive maintenance procedures we used for Mike's car, which produced immediate results in terms of overall electrical operation, and even better engine idling/running. And any aluminum fuses you see, pull them out and throw them away!

Thank you so very much, sir! - especially for the information on the electrical, which is one of my greatest concerns regarding reliability.

In your project, did you keep the factory wheels?

 

[alfaloco]

You are most welcome.

Yes, Mike likes the wineglass wheels, so we cleaned and kept them.

 

[alfaparticle]

The 86 speedometer senders were unreliable and are impossible to find. A Milano sender + amplifier is the replacement.

 

[ghnl]

I added a relay so that all the switched accessories get full power. Before there was a significant voltage drop through the ignition switch. Afterwards the ignition switch only has to carry the tiny bit of current needed to trigger the relay. Now the windows move at a reasonable speed and my wipers work much better. Info is in a reply to this thread: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfetta-gtv6-1972-1986/543281-proud-owner-82-gtv6.html

 

[sriswit]

Don't forget to disassemble your power window regulators, clean them up, and repack the gears with modern grease.

 

[Duk]

1 thing that was shared on GTV6.com many moons ago, was widened standard GTV6 wheels.
I loved the way the car looked with the extra offset (or is that less offset........... :huh: ) helped to fill the guards and allow for some wider rubber.
Maybe some rear spacers to help even the front and rear track widths too???

 

[planetmojo2]

On the wheel question... I was concerned that changing the rims and tire sizes too much might result in interference up in the wheel wells and arches. So, I opted for a mild upgrade. A friend in Ireland found me some 16" Teledials from ALFA 147/156 models. These are only 1/2" wider than stock. I figure that equates to a little more contact patch on the road, without having to add power steering from a Milano for an even wider tire. (Altho, I've heard some rave reviews on having PS for parking). The offset worked out to 3/8" to one side and 1/8" on the other, on the extra 1/2" width. That also seemed safe. If I stick to a tire diameter/circumference very close to stock, I can still put the spare in the trunk recess and not throw the speedo off. With 1/2" less tire sidewall per side from the center, I might get a bit less side flex in the twisties, without diminishing the ride quality. I'm no expert on this stuff. Just relying on pure logic.

You may also want to consider swapping out the rubber bushings in the suspension for Poly. If you haven't already, be sure to drain out all the old gas before trying to start it. And replace with fresh gas, and maybe some stabilizer. Old gas can clog your injectors with varnish.

Dave and the boys above steered you well. We'd like to see pix as you bring that rascal back to life. If you need any parts, I have a couple of bone cars as organ donors.

Best of luck with your project,
Peter

 

[ghnl]

Has anyone mentioned the timing belt? The V-6 is an interference engine - if the belt breaks (rare) or slips a few teeth on the camshaft (it can happen easily if the crankshaft is allowed to turn backwards) valves & pistons will collide. The recommended belt change interval is 30K miles. And you must never allow the engine to turn backwards. If parking facing downhill, leave the transmission in first gear. If facing uphill, leave it in reverse.

Lots of info about the timing belt and tensioner options are in the 164 section - look in Alfisto Steve's Maintenance Tips. All the info for the 12 valve 164 engine also applies to the GTV6 engine.

 

[planetmojo2]

If you can find a Milano Verde 3.0, that's a much easier swap than the 164 engine. Nearly plug & play. But not as easy to find now. The timing belt, as mentioned by ghnl, is your topmost concern. Also along those lines, have the 3 rubber donuts (guibos) on the drive shaft checked over. Dry rot from sitting could be a concern too. You don't want the front of your drive shaft dropping to the ground at speed, and acting as a catapult.

 

[nomoreplaces]

You guys are giving me an excellent 'known issues' checklist here.

Invaluable. And I humbly thank you all!

 

[DOM!]

Should create a sticky of this post.


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[alfaloco]

You don't want to miss out on this old site, either. Oldie but a goldie....

AlfaGTV6.com ~ Home of the Alfa Romeo Transaxle

 

[alfaparticle]

The 164 has stronger rockers than the Milano 3L. The earlier type can break, particularly if you fit bigger cams. I would start with a 164 motor if I were doing another 3L transplant.

 

[76Satisfaction]

The 164 has stronger rockers than the Milano 3L. The earlier type can break, particularly if you fit bigger cams. I would start with a 164 motor if I were doing another 3L transplant.

Is there a significant difference in the work to transplant a 164 3.0L 12v compared to a 164 3.0L 24v?

That swap would get you from 155hp in a stock 2.5L to 210hp stock. Then if you add Q intake runners and a ECU chip to the 24v you would get close to 100hp over the stock 2.5L, no?

Thx,
- Art

 

[alfaparticle]

IMO the added complexity and cost of the 24V is not worth it. I bought a 164 motor that had already been converted for RWD. I have never removed the heads and I have 214 HP at the wheels - 260+ at the flywheel, just cams, Megasquirt, exhaust and intake modifications.

 

[Del]

Judging by the pictures shown by another GTV6 poster, I think it is imperative to check the upper shock mounting brackets of the front suspension. His car had total failure of those upper mounts, the metal tearing out completely.

In fact, I need to check our Milano for the same thing, being a similar car, and now running the stiffer Bilstein shocks, which I don't really care for. Stock was better for the street.

 

[Alfistaa]

I used to have a GTV6 race car with a 24v Q engine. 7k rpm all day long, it was sweet! I have an extra one sitting around that I'm prepping and may install in my road car. It's a more involved project to drop one of these in a transaxle car, but still quite doable. Is it worth it? If you drive hard, most certainly. Plus these engines can be upped to 300hp easy.