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Discussion Starter #1
I noticed that the fan connected to the top front of the engine and turned via a belt feels loose (wobbles side to side) on my Giuletta Spider. Is there a trick to tightening it? seems like there is a 22mm nut on the front that I could crank down on but wasn't sure if that is the right move or not (fyi nut is already pretty tight).

Thanks,

Sean
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks. does it connect the water pump with the one big 22mm nut? I cant see in there with the radiator in place but was looking at this picture of a new water pump wondering if maybe some nuts are loose/gone.

 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks and good point didn't notice the mention of 1600 cc engines! Anyone know where you can get a new 1300cc water pump?
 

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Sean there are plenty of variables here and at least 5 different pumps and not everything fits everything else

What Giulietta do you have, post the chassis number & very importantly also post your engine number and a picture of your pump & fan, even just from an angle so we can try help you

Ciao
Greig
 

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The rebuildable double bearing pumps Greig refers to are 750, 750/101 and 101-1300 all of which will function for your car, and use the bolt on fan - pulley combination. Those fairly easily found as aftermarket are 101-1600, 105 1600/1750, 1750 and then 2L, NONE of which are correct for your engine.
 

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WoW! This IS interesting! This appears a 101-1300, with maybe a 105-1300 head and cam cover at quick glance. Other opinions? How about a serial number on the block?
I'm pretty sure a 101-1300 WP will not fit the 105-1300. Come on Greig, what's he got here?
 

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Hi Sean,

Greig is correct that the engine number could help here.
Interesting to archive would be also a picture of the complete foundry number at the front of the head. Thanks for that information.

Thierry



Hi Sean, mechtild and all,

The very late Giulietta berlinas ( from engine 00128.02851 on) and the ti ( from 00129.01861 on) had a late type 101.00 cilinder head with a 105.00 type water pump housing mounted, although the Alfa # for the complete pump remained a 101 number.

About the hexagonal nuts at the front of the head:

Unfortunately there is no picture of that specific cylinder head in the late Giulietta catalog, so we can't check whether that head had the hexagonal nuts at the front. But that same cylinder head number was also listed for the early 105.06 Giulia 1300 until chassis # 586897 ( 1966). In the 105 Giulia 1300 berlina catalog we see that same head with the hex nuts indeed.

I would think that the cam cover is wrong .

Any other toughts or corrections are always appreciated.

Thierry
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Here are few more pictures. Let me know if I got shots of what you were asking for. the Grey one with the number 10 on it is the front of the head right above the water pump.

Question on the water pump...The shaft that the fan is bolted 2 doesn't seem to have play in it. Wondering if the water pump is okay and there is a bearing behind the nut that may have gone bad. I was able to get a 22 mm socket on that nut that holds the fan in place.
 

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I once built a 101 1300 water pump with 105 internals and plastic fan with pressed on narrow pulley for a 1300-101 race engine. This engine also used the narrow 1600-101 type crank and generator pulley. This was done because a 1600-101 or 105 WP will NOT fit a 101-1300 front cover due to different stud pattern.
1628593
Here it is complete.
1628594

There was more trickery here as the 1600 pumps impeller protrudes into a pocket in later front covers. Here is a 105-1600 front cover and stud pattern.
IMG_1087.JPG IMG_1099.JPG
1628595

Here's the 105-1600 block with WP body in place.
1628596

A 750, 750/101, or 101-1300 WP body will NOT fit the later stud pattern. I just tried.
As the thread starters photos show, there IS the earlier pump mounted, so the front cover is a 1300, 750 or 101. The HEAD IS NOT 750 or 101-1300. What head is mounted? I have mounted 1300-101 heads on 750 blocks in my innocent past with great results, but not a much later head as pictured.
 

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Sean,
The pulley and fan is keyed and bolted to the water pump shaft. There is no bearing other than the two in the water pump itself.
Do you see any coolant weeping from the pump bottom when running?
Joe
 

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Hi Sean,

The complete engine number can be found on the block under the carb(s), stamped on a little flat platform. Can you look it up ?
Are the head and the front cover to your knowledge original to this engine ?

Rgds,

Thierry
 

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NO cam cover hold downs on your pictured head Mechtild. The thread starters head has hold downs.
1628600
 

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Welcome to the BB Sean

Your 1495*08840 is a very early '60 Spider in this case the Tipo 10104 shows that it is a USA Spec Spider Normale so should have red/red/white tail lights, no fender repeater indicators, MPH gauges & sealed beam headlights. Looking at the pictures, I would guess you have the original block because you have the early 101 water pump. The head however has been changed because you have the cam cover breather tube plus 2 little hold down tabs on the front, these only arrived in '66. You should find an extra unused lump on the front of the head above the distributor which has a hole in it - the 105 cars had an extra hold down lug on the top of the timing cover which the 101's didn't. The original head on your engine would most likely have had 2 rectangular plates on the front in place of the 2 hexagonal plugs. That said, I'd rather have a good 105 head than a bad 101 head - to reduce the visual effect of the 105 head, you can fit the 101 cam cover without the breather if you have the correct 101 breather at the back of the block.

Assuming that the engine in the pictures is still the original motor, it will be a 1315 designation - but this is NOT a 750 engine, but rather one of a short run of early 101 engines that were designated 1315, you can see them in Fusi on page 839 at the bottom, there are 3 lines of Sprints for 1959. The middle row are these early 1315/101 engines, they have the block mounted fuel pump under the dizzy and are 101 spec throughout, all engine numbers are over 10000, then at 14300 the designation was changed to 00102, so there were 4299 engines of the new 101 spec but with old numbers.... They surface from time to time, we have one of them for our Feb '60 Spider 1495*08930 only 90 cars later than yours, but designated 10103 & we also have a 15 July '60 Spider 10990 also a 10103.

  • Giulietta Sprint 750B Autotelaio 1493.07922 to 1493.010301 Mortori 1315.06904 to 1315.09002
  • Giulietta Sprint 10102 Autotelaio 1493.20001 to 1493.21487 Mortori 1315.010001 to 1315.014299
  • Giulietta Sprint 10102 Autotelaio 1493.20001 to 1493.21487 Mortori 100102.14300 to 00102 14384
The reason I directed you to the Sprints and not the Spiders is because there is an omission on Page 840 in Fusi, for 1959 there are 2 lines of Giulietta Spiders for 1959, the first the old SWB 750 Spiders and the second the new LWB Interim/ transition Spiders now designated 10103 (10104 US Spec never made it into Fusi). The bottom row are these early 1315/101 engines, they have the block mounted fuel pump under the dizzy and are 101 spec throughout, all engine numbers are over 010000 like the Sprints. BUT if you look at 1960 you can see there are still only 2 lines of Spiders but a jump in the engine numbers where a line of Spiders has been omitted - I have "added" this line in below

  • 1959
  • Giulietta Spider 750D Autotelaio 1495.05620 to 1493.07213 Mortori 1315.44770 to 1315.45854
  • Giulietta Spider 10103 Autotelaio 1495.08001 to 1493.08537 Mortori 100102.010001 to 00102 010509 (1315 designation on the new 101 engine)
  • 1960
  • Giulietta Spider 10103 Autotelaio 1495.08538 to 1493.11900 Mortori 1315.010510 to 1315.14384 (Missing run of 1315/101 engine numbers in this Spider range - our 08930 falls into this range
  • Giulietta Spider 10103 Autotelaio 1495.08538 to 1493.11900 Mortori 10102.14385 to 10102.23835 (Same chassis number run but new engines - my 10990 falls into this range)
  • Giulietta Sprint 10103 Autotelaio 10103.167001 to 10103.168733 Mortori 10102.14385 to 10102.23835 (The last of the '60 Spiders with the new 101 chassis numbers)


By sheer coincidence, this is something I wrote yesterday for the 750/101 Group on Groups.io

During late-ish '59 the Factory decided to allocate a few more designations to the mix, 10104 & 10105 which were USA Spec Spider & Sprint Normale's respectively. Gets even more fun in that the USA Spider Veloce's were designated 10125. Interesting that the Sprint Tags attached have the full engine numbers, while the Spider Veloce attached doesn't. While I have never seen one, I would presume that 10124 was the designation for a US Spec Sprint Veloce for a brief time. Strange that the 4 & 5 was swapped between the Sprint & Spider from Normale to Veloce - see tags attached

The idea was that as Hoffman was ordering large volumes with a specific specification (red/red/white tail lights, no side marker lamps, MPH gauges and GE sealed beam headlights), it would be a good idea to have a dedicated build code just for the USA, enter stage left 10104 / 10105 / 10125. This lasted for about 8 months when the Factory realised that if an order came in that wasn't either built, or able to be scheduled in a hurry, the Factory just shipped whatever was in the stockyard at the time which is why some Giulietta's in the US have side marker lamps etc

Interim / Transition cars are viewed with suspicion in some circles, but really it's just an evolution from the old 750 to the new 101 and once you can track the changes they are quite easy to understand. Fusi isn't always that accurate & doesn't even record the brief US spec designations.
Ciao
Greig
 

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There we go! Thanks Greig!
 
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