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Discussion Starter #1
I've read mixed opinions on what the best way to pull the engine is... I'm doing a complete rebuild, but I'm not planning on doing anything with the trans, so should I leave it in the car then? If I unbolt the trans from the bell housing, will there be enough support for the transmission left to keep it from either damaging mounts or falling out of the car?

This is the first time I've ever pulled a motor myself, so I want to be extra sure! :)
 

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My druthers have always gone toward the 'don't pull what you're not working on' way of doing it.

However, if you do leave the trans behind, you'll have to work out a way of holding up the front as it will want to droop/sag/flop/whatever.

Depending on how you're going about it, you can block it up from underneathe (car won't be able to be moved) or get creative like looping a run of clothesline around the bellhousing and/or trans body then tying that off to something up high like a PVC pipe with a broom handle shoved through it for extra strength (though the trans is pretty light when you're only holding up one end) laying it left to right across the hood sill or tops of the fenders if properly padded so that it holds the trans up (car can move)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Okay... that's good to know. I'll need to sort out a way of holding it up the engine-side. I'd rather figure that out now, than while I've got the engine halfway out of the car, and a bent rear mount or something. :)
 

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To do both together you will need to lift the back of the car very high & also need a high lift hoist with adjustable CofG lift point. (bear in mind you will also need a high garage roof!) If you lift the motor on its own chock the gearbox but make sure you remove the gear lever (shift stick) as it is easy to bend a gearbox selector fork if the motor moves suddenly. Generally speaking for home diy pull the motor only If you have a pro workshop do both together.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i'm certainly DIY, and only have 8-10' of vertical clearance floor to ceiling... I think motor only is my best bet... I'm glad you guys mentioned this, otherwise I might have ended up doing it on the street or something to get the clearance I need for the whole thing (which would have obviously sucked).

I'ma source an engine crane this week, and go from there... hopefully I'll get er out this weekend!

Any idea about how much the front end of the tranny weighs when supported by the bracket? Am I looking at ~2lbs, or like ~20+? Just trying to get an idea for how much structural support I'll need... I plan on making it so I can move the car around, since I'll have to get it at an odd angle to have enough room to get the motor out anyways, and I want to be able to still park my other car in the garage when done (may not work afterall, but one can dream :D).
 

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Put a piece of 4" x 4" wood across the front inner wings & hold the trans up using a motorcycle tie down strap. I guess 50lbs or more because the rear trans mount is pretty flimsy & you need to consider the weight of the prop shaft.
 

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i would suggest pulling both as a unit. i pushed car out into the driveway, jacked it up, unhooked everything, let the front down, jacked rear up a bit more, pulled engine/trans out slow, unhooked stuff i forgot, and it was out. all in all it is easier than i expectedl. clearance under the car is tight, pulling engine from trans may be easy, but the idea of lining it up for reinstallation is scary to me. my vote, pull it all. reasemble as a unit with new clutch and go driving. also, transmission out makes it much easier to replace the rubber mount.

this was also the first time i had pulled an engine from an alfa, and would do it this way from now on. good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
trans mount has already been replaced (it was sagging nastily due to oil saturation). Trouble is my driveway is too steep, and my garage too short... plus I'm a bit weary about doing it in the street or something. I'm fairly certain city ordinaces would prohibit me from doing that type of stuff. :p

argh! now i don't know what to do! :confused:

how high would i have to jack the rear end to get the transmission out? how much room in front of the car would i need? can that little strap on top of the motor support the entire assembly? if not, where else should i attach supports?

again, this is the first time i've ever pulled a motor... i'm quite capable, yet a bit nervous to make sure i don't forget anything or screw anything up...
 

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Just my view, but I have always taken the gearbox out before lifting the engine. I have it down to a fine art and find that I can rest it on my chest and knees and gently withdraw it from the engine. The engine then just pops out. Replacing is not a big item either if the engine is canted down at the rear and the clutch plate has been correctly lined up with a mandrel.
Best of luck
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Okay... I'ma try to just do the engine... If i run into trouble, I'll bolt it back to the tranny and pull the whole thing.

how's that? :D
 

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The main issue you run into in getting the engine out by itself is getting the front high enough to clear the radiator support. So:
1. Disconnect the sway bar and drop it down.
2. As you lift the engine, jack up the front of the trans as high as it will go at the same time, progressively, until the bellhousing hits the top of the tunnel.
3. Then when the front of the engine clears the rad support, pull the engine straight out from the trans far enough to clear the input shaft.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #13
got it... I'll give that a shot. looks like my transmission has a date with a bottle jack and a block of wood. :)
 

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Hi guys long time reader first time replier
from my experience, i attached some wire and tied it through the in the transmission (end of the bell housing) and tied it up to the bonnet latch (important do this before you separate trans from motor). This method allows you to still steer the car like normal without having to leave the car in one spot until you put the transmission out
 

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Miker, I'm not trying to confuse you. But I have always found it MUCH easier to pull both together. I have a standard (cheap) Harbor Freight engine hoist. Keep the front of the car as low as you can. Jack the rear as high as you can safely. Make sure the lift strap on the head is mounted to the second set of head studs, not the 3rd (middle) set. This allows more "tilt". For me, it's always been easier to take the shift linkage and driveshaft loose, than to pull the starter and get to the bell housing bolts.

Either way you decide to do it, just take your time. You'll be a pro in no time!

Erik
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Well, I'll find out tomorrow how much of a pro I am. :)

Like I said, I'm worried about adding unneeded complexity (ie, driveshaft stuff, clutch hydraulics, etc)... *but* I don't want to shortcut and end up damaging something.

I'm sure it'll work out one way or another, but for now I'll just hafta see how it goes I guess. :)
 

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Well, I'll cast my vote for engine/trans removal as a unit. Jacking up the rear shouldn't pose a problem. You are going to jack the car up anyway, another foot or so shouldn't make a difference.


pulling motor.JPG
GTV on jack stands in the rear. (Now that I look at it I think the motor is already out as the front is sitting a bit high)

GTV Engine removal.JPG
The motor/trans comes out at a pretty severe angle.



Below is the procedure I use. If you do go motor only, take lots of pictures and let us know how it goes.

- Rich D.


Engine removal procedure:
1) First, use all safety precautions and don’t put yourself or your pals in danger of getting crushed, impaled, and torched. Be smart and don’t blame me if something bad happens…
2) If it is your first time, take as many pictures as you can from every angle. Video if you got it. This is a cool thing to do and I’ll bet only 1 out 10 of your gearhead friends have really pulled a motor. Bragging rights, baby!
3) A few days before, start spraying everything with Pb Blaster. The more the better.
4) Powerwash the motor and engine bay. When done, start the motor up just to verify that you didn’t jazz something up at this stage (it is nice to know it was working when you pulled it…).
5) Cover your fenders with something substantial (I think I saw osso using carpet padding which is a great idea).
6) Drain the fluids.
7) Remove the hood (mark the hinge locations), the battery, and the radiator.
8) While you are still clean, hop inside the car and remove the transmission console, all the boots, and then remove the shift rod. There is a 11mm bolt (M7 I guess) on the back. Pull that out and the rod comes right out.
9) Duct tape the stub end to protect it and so the sliding plates don't go AWOL.
10) Start at one side and work your way around the car disconnecting, tagging and taking pictures. Put loose stuff in ziplock bags or Tupperware. Mark everything. Not a bad idea to have a log book and note where you put stuff.
11) You can use clamps for the fuel lines but I just let them drain out (put a pan under!).
12) Remove the upper nuts for the motor mounts (one upper per side). They are pretty easy to get to – belying what comes later…
13) Remove the tach cable. This is my single least favorite step. It should be easy but it is not. Here is my tip of the day: If you even think you need to replace the tach cable, get some bolt cutters and cut that cable with extreme prejudice! It’s hard enough getting it off with the engine out! So for $18 I don’t think twice about it. The alternative is to disconnect it from the gauge and feed it out the firewall. You can do that with the speedo too but I haven’t had much trouble with speedo cables for some reason (I suppose heat and access).
14) Having sprayed the exhaust manifold really well with PB Blaster for the last couple of days prior, it is now time to tackle another area I hate: The exhaust manifold. Jack the car up as high as you can and slip under the driver’s side with a 13mm socket, long extension and a universal joint. You need to remove the three or six bolts (depending on the manifold) that connects the manifold to the down pipe. It is a pain, take your time. You will need a 13mm wrench on the other end and you might need to grind the wrench a bit to get at some of the tight squeeze heads.
15) Alternatively, you can unbolt the manifold from the head again, the last couple of nuts are a pain to remove and you need to keep it from hanging up when the motor is coming out. – choose your poison…
16) Now the lower motor mounts (another of the axis of evil): Use a 13mm wrench and take your time. (I think I get it from down below.). The driver’s side is a pain but the passenger side is a royal pain.
17) Unbolt the trans crossmember, driveshaft bearing and the other (?) crossmember. These are all 10mm I believe. Use a jack to support the trans.
18) Disconnect the Speedo cable!
19) Disconnect the driveshaft from the diff. Again, I think 13mm. An impact wrench is a nice thing to have. IMPORTANT: Mark the driveshaft/diff so you can put it back together the same way it came out.
20) Scoot around to the other side and disconnect the clutch slave cylinder hose (tape it off) and the ground strap.
21) Unbolt the idler arm from the wheel well by removing the (3) large bolts. They are pretty easy to access by ****ing the tire to the left.
22) When free, pull the unit down and out to get the tie-rod as far out of the way. The bellhousing likes to catch the tie rod.
23) Alternatively you can separate the tie-rod joints but they can the very stubborn – the idler arm never is.
24) Grab your 13mm wrench and start in on the lower nut for the motor mount on the passenger side. From down under or up above – it is a pain.
25) Grab a couple of friends and a motor lift. One guy mans the lift, one is under the car to steer the trans, and one is your rover top side. It sounds silly but it’s not a bad idea to get your signals straight first.
26) Move the lifting strap one head bolt set to the front of the engine. This allows you to get a good angle on the motor.
27) Jack the back up as far as you can (at least 18” off the tires). It’s a good idea to get the front end up too but what you are really looking to do is get a nice angle front to back.
28) The idea is up and forward (forward being toward the front of the car). There are three main constraints: The trans stub and the firewall, the bell housing and the tie rod/main cross member, and the front of the oil pan and the torsion bar (some folks remove the torsion bar – I’ve not had to).
29) You will have forgotten to disconnect something (did you remove the tach and speedo cables like I asked you to?) so when the motor resists your attempts to free it from its sheetmetal bonds, take a good look before you take it to the next level.
30) If you have the back end jacked up and get a good enough angle on the motor, it will come out! You might need to rock the motor a bit. Watch where is scrapes. Especially if you are planning on painting the engine bay, you are going to want to avoid them on the way back.
31) Go to harbor freight and buy either the $39 motor stand or at least one of those furniture movers with casters. If you get the stand, mount the motor to the exhaust side using the motor mount studs. You will have to drill out the plate on the stand but it is well worth it. They are plenty strong enough to hold our light weight little nords.

modified motor stand.JPG
motor on stand.JPG
 

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I'm guessing you have a manual, but one thing nobody's mentioned... When you pull both out, the center tie rod has to be removed.
True.....kind of. You can just take one tie rod end loose, it will then move out of the way. You don't have to completely remove the center link. But you are correct that this is a step you don't have to do if you remove just the engine.

Erik
 
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