[braino]

Hey Folks,

I'm a long time Alfisti - currently restoring a GT-Veloce and recently completed a Giulietta Spider. I've had various 105s including a Spider and a Super, and a 115 Coupe that was my daily driver for several years (it was IMMACULATE, but it dropped a valve seat when I was up to my elbos in the Giulietta Spider)...

Anyway, I just bought my first Milano. It's a really lovely 88 Verde - black. The recaros are perfect, it's got only 40,000miles, new clutch, new timing belt, etc. etc.

Test driving it I noticed the engine temp was a little on the high side. As I've never owned an Alfa that could move a temp gauge needle, I'm a little curious as to what the "normal" operating temp of a Verde is. The owner seemed very comfortable with 190deg (he said the car would sometimes hit this on hot days with the AC on). I trust the guy but I wanted to get an opinion from some of you long standing Milano drivers.

What should I expect?

Any other info that I need to know - please feel free to drop me a note. I'd love to hear from you.

I live in the Bay Area - the only other Alfa folks I know are strictly old school. Any other local Verde people out there?

Cheers,
Brian

 

[DSpieg]

I have an '87 Milano Gold 2.5L and it runs at 190-195F all the time. The 6-cylinder cars are not cool-running like the older Alfas. My '85 GTV6 also runs constantly at the high end of the 'normal' range.

 

[lowmileage]

.... the only other Alfa folks I know are strictly old school.

The only one's worth their salt IMO.

 

[braino]

yes. I am at heart an "old-schooler" myself. My wife, however, is not comfortable with the idea of driving a Giulia Super as an everyday car. The closest I could come is a Verde - which is far is some ways, close in others.

She's never driven a stick, so this will be her learner. She's going to be great at it, I'm sure - she was a prima ballerina and has much better general coordination than I do - for sure. She'll be double clutching in no time

Thanks for the info about temp. Like I said - I feel pretty comfortable with the previous owner of this car. He's the shop forman at Ferrari of Beverly Hills. He's more Italian than my Papa Guiseppi.

cheers,
Brian

 

[JoeCab]

I've owned quite a few Milanos, here's what I view as "normal":

Under cruising conditions, the gauge should read very close to 175 degrees (or a little higher for the 3.0, IMHO).

However, once you encounter slow traffic or start pulling higher revs in "spirited" driving, it will quickly rise to about 3/4 position on the gauge. But, it should quickly come down again as the cooling fan kicks on and/or you get back to cruising in clean airflow.

I think a lot of people run around with underperforming cooling systems and assume it's normal for the cars to run hot!

Joe

 

[MitchW]

My Verde will run at a steady 175 at highway speeds but once you get off the highway the temp goes up to the 190-195 area and on a hot day or after a hard run even higher. Keep in mind that the gauges aren't very reliable. I keep an infrared thermometer in the glove box for double checking when my gauges go crazy. If your temps are much higher then check the thermostat. My car sat around for awhile before I got it and it tended to stick till I finally found a workable replacement. Also make sure that the fan is coming on. Another dreaded culprit could be a head gasket.

Mitch

 

[braino]

aluminum radiators

this does beg the question - does installing one of those newfangled aluminum radiators make a difference at all? Is it worth spending the $550+ ?

I was reading a couple of threads about some of the less-than-reliable independent parts sellers offering bits though the BB - seems like you have to be a little cautious about who you buy stuff from, eh?

B

 

[Gubi]

Mine behaves exactly like Joe's and Mitch's. 175 (or even a tad lower) on the highway, up to ~195 when sitting. I put in a new thermostat at one point and it behaved exactly the same.

The needle seems to move around a lot during regular driving on the Milano and I'm not sure how much I believe it. I remember someone saying that they checked the ECU temperature probe output while driving and that while the dash needle went all over the place, the ECU was seeing a pretty consistent temperature. Never tried this myself, though.

 

[slyalfa]

I think the problem is the thermo switch. mine use to get up there in trafic. but now I have the ECU turn on the fan when the temp get just over the setpoint the the coolent thermostat.
and I never see it go past mid point 175° on the alfa dial. which reads a bit hoter then the coollent is. I think it is off about 10°


P.S. I think this is party due to lack of flow by the thermoswitch. it seems to stay cool there by the switch but the temp in other places are too high. if the switch was in say the hose I bet it would work. but in a old radiator I think parts start to get pluged and the part to plug seem to be next to the thermo switch.

 

[braino]

sounds like an interesting mod. Can you briefly explain how this is done? Or should I just read the manual section about the ECU and go buy a commercial soldering iron?

Brian

 

[slyalfa]

I have a VEMS ECU I changed out the L-jet.
most aftermarkit ECUs have extra outputs that can trigger off things.
and runing the fan is a common one to set. most newer cars use the ECU to control the fan too.
as the ECU needs to know the temp anyways it is very easy to add a set point to turn on the fan.


It would be a very simple circuit to use the temp sender feeding the gauge to do this.
a op-amp + a mosfet. to run the fan reley. or use a atmel tiny + a mosfet

I bet there is one out there if you searched.

 

[SamW]

I have an alum radiator in my Verde, in 95 degree ehat with the AC on, it barely gets above the 175 mark, my stock GTV6 runs about the same with the AC, I think the stock cooling system is good, just make sure everything is right, engine, thermostat, fan, radiator....

 

[MaxSport]

175 on open highway.
Over 175 in traffic. Mid way between 175 and 200, then fan kicks in.

BTW-do any of you shut off the car and then turn the key back to allow the fan to continue cooling the engine after you have parked?

 

[braino]

I think I may just invest in an aluminum radiator. Who is the best vendor (service / timeliness) for this item? Anyone have an opinion?

Seems like there are some less than reliable sellers out there (reading back into this group).

 

[Gubi]

175 on open highway.
Over 175 in traffic. Mid way between 175 and 200, then fan kicks in.

BTW-do any of you shut off the car and then turn the key back to allow the fan to continue cooling the engine after you have parked?

There's a simple mod to enable the fan running with the ignition off. I did this on my car but can't remember the source...I'll see if I can find the link at home tonight.

Not that I'm convinced it's really a problem, but if folks want the fan switch to turn on quicker probably the easiest thing to do is just put a 10F cooler switch into the radiator. On a stock car this'll be a lot easier than modifying the system to run off the temp sender signal.

 

[SamW]

Brian,

I had a local builder do mine, let me know if you want pics or want me to talk to them, he had plans of doing some, he took pics of mine to put in Hemmings.

As for the lower temp fan switch, here is one;

http://catalog.autosportvolkswagenparts.com/

Part number is G5030-21929
2 Pin 75-70c Degree

Sam

 

[JoeCab]

I think I may just invest in an aluminum radiator. Who is the best vendor (service / timeliness) for this item? Anyone have an opinion?

While the custom aluminum radiators look like very fine products, I am not absolutely convinced they are better than a new OEM 3.0 radiator for street use.

Most people are comparing old/clogged original radiators to new aluminum radiators, and of course the aluminum will show an improvement.

Remember, copper is a better heat conductor than aluminum

Joe

 

[Gubi]

There's a simple mod to enable the fan running with the ignition off. I did this on my car but can't remember the source...I'll see if I can find the link at home tonight.

Found it.

http://hades.myweb.hinet.net/

Click on the link "Rewire your fan to run after the engine is turned off". Again, not sure how much of a difference it makes, but it will run for a minute or so after shutting things off. Can't hurt (unless your temp switch sticks and drains your battery, of course!)

 

[SamW]

Joe,
Good point, having run two different alum rad in my Verde, I think the biggest difference is that I am not able to run the stock fan, and most aftermarket electric fans don't pull as stong as the stock one. The other thing to remember is capacity, the 3.0 stock rad is larger than the 2.5, and the alum is even bigger, plus you have to consider the shape of the passage ways in the rad, I think the alum gives you more cooling surface area than copper because of the larger tubes. Anyway, here is a the Alfa Heaven alumn radiator and the one I had made locally, I don't think Alfa Heaven sells them anymore.

 

[slyalfa]

My Verde came with a aluminum radiator. but with plastic tanks.

I thought only the TD was copper?