Engine Swap Help!!!

1285 Views 14 Replies 6 Participants Last post by JDM, Jan 6, 2012

JDM

Discussion Starter · Jul 30, 2011

Hi,

Need some help/guidance/thoughts on swapping out a blown 164S engine from a 1993S and replacing with a base/L engine. Would like to bolt up the "S" transmission and drop the engine and trans in my 164S.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim

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Richard2

· #2 · Jul 30, 2011

Use the S pressure plate, disc, fork etc. Use the S slave cylinder and slave cylinder mounting bracket. Not sure, but I think you will need the B/L air flow meter and ECU. There may be a way around this as I believe 1 wire on the air flow meter isn't used on the B/L engine. The big air hose is also different from the B/L to the S.

As far as mating the B/L engine to the S transmission, you basically need to use everything associated with the S.

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Alfisto Steve

· #3 · Jul 30, 2011

As Richard said you have to use S pull clutch assembly on B engine. If reusing your clutch you might want to use your flywheel too and if B engine is from A/T car you need to verify crankshaft uses same thread pitch flywheel bolts (early M10x1.50 coarse thread, later M10x1.25 fine). A/T flywheel bolts are longer than 5-speed, too.

You can use your S ECU and AFM with B engine. Also I would use your S exhaust manifolds.

Only real difference internal difference in engines is cams and compression ratio. S engines usually had oil squirter valves inside to spray pistons and also has oil cooler system mounted on oil filter pad so you can use that set up and and lower and mid thermostat housings off your S engine to run coolant lines to oil cooler if you want cooler on B engine.

I installed that set up on my B engine in my B.

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JDM

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 30, 2011

Thanks- this is great information.

Plan now is to use intake runners/air pelnum/throttlebody/corregated hose/airbox/afm/trans/flywheel/clutch from the S. I was hoping everything would bolt up without to many issues--

All the S parts are being transfered to an L engine currently mated with an Auto trans -so I'll be sure to check flywheel/crank bolts

Last question(hopefully)- when pulling the Flywheel and moving among different crankshafts, is there any balance issues? My concern is, are flywheels & cranks balanced as a unit?

This should be a great car when I get it going-interior and exterior are in really nice condition, leather is really nice, new red paint, tires and stock S wheels look brand new- I think about 9.5 out of 10 (except for the blown engine), If I can figure out how, I will post some picture as I make progress.

I'm motivated, now if I could just turn the heat down outside

You guys are great thanks for all your help!!!

Thanks Steve!!!
Thanks Richard!!!

Jim

Auto trans will be available in about two weeks (Free). Not sure of condition but pulled from a wreaked car so I'm assuming that it was operational before the accident.

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Richard2

· #5 · Jul 31, 2011

auto transmission are in demand and should be worth something

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Alfisto Steve

· #6 · Jul 31, 2011

What is manufacture date of your 164S in 02-1991 or later? If so your shorter 5-speed flywheel bolts should be fine thread 60579167 ones and if the 164L model was built before that it will have coarse longer 60540632 A/T threaded bolts so you will need shorter coarse threaded 60512746 for 5-speed flywheel.

Conversely if L later and S earlier you will need shorter fine threaded bolts.

I would verify this first off.

Yes originally engine crankshaft, flywheel and front pulley were balanced as a unit but you shoiuldn't notice a real vibration issue from swapping flywheels.

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JDM

Discussion Starter · #7 · Sep 2, 2011

Well, after pulling the S engine and swapping the S trans over to the base model that had an auto trans I found as mentioned by Steve that the flywheel bolts are different. Also, the intermediate drive shaft has a thicker diameter on the auto trans(just used the shaft from the S). Used wiring harness, intakes,injectors, exhaust manifolds,AFM from the S and dropped engine in the car. Now when attempting to start I just get a loud "Click", but engine does not turn over. Checked and cleaned the large cable ground from wheelwell to transmission. still just a "click" and no starter engagement. Any thoughts or suggestions on what to check?

Thanks in advance for any help.

PS- The S engine has a hole about the size of a quarter blown through in the block about 4in to the right of the dipstick base. looks like a rod let loose!! I have pictures but can't figure out how to post!

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donliznev

· #8 · Sep 2, 2011

Your swap sounds almost like mine right down to the loud click on start....if I am understanding correctly that you swapped the auto trans for a manual?

Read my recent thread on this subject.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/183816-93l-auto-rebuild-91l-manual.html

Ignore my ramblings and pay attention to Steve's specific advice regarding the auto trans cut-out switch and jumping the bulkhead connector pins to check whether or not the starter turns.

Your advantage is that you changed the wiring harness which I did not.
At the time I thought they all had the same harness.

Ta,

Neville.

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Richard2

· #9 · Sep 2, 2011

Hole in the block is not a good sign. I just took a good block to the recycle

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Alfisto Steve

· #10 · Sep 2, 2011

Did you rehook up big wire braided grounding strap between chassis near air cleaner box and transmission 5th gear case?

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JDM

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jan 5, 2012

164 Front Springs broken-help!

Well, swapped engine and with some work my 164S with the non S engine is running very well. Air leaks and grounds seemed to be the main cause for most of the poor running problems.
Md safety inspection noted that the car needed balljoints and tie rods-no problem, as I am replacing these parts I decided to replace the lower strut bearings because I was told that they go bad(good thing as both were trashed). I now find that both front springs are broken (not noted from the inspection station). There is a plastic covering on the top and bottom portion of the springs, both were broken under this covering on the lower portion of the springs.
Is there a source for stock replacement springs or does anybody have information on aftermarket springs. All help/suggestions appreciated.

James

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la_strega_nera

· #12 · Jan 6, 2012

Nab the front springs from the donor wreck - the autos and 164S had same springs.

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AlfaVeloce

· #13 · Jan 6, 2012 (Edited)

I bought a new front spring from Alfaromeoinc.com late last year. I probably have the part number in my office. I can get it tomorrow. I think Alfisto Steve has it memorized.

Edit -- I had it here at home: part number 60541189. Pricey. It'll be about $100 with shipping

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Alfisto Steve

· #14 · Jan 6, 2012

Alfa Orlando Alfa Romeo Inc. still has new 164S front springs in stock.

00605411890000

SUS SPR F AUTO

$90.76

Yes

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JDM

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 6, 2012

Thanks for the response, the donor car that the engine came from is gone, probably along with a good set of front springs. I saw some B&G springs on ebay but they lower the car about 1.5in all around. Any comments or experience with these springs? Thanks for all the help.

James

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