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Discussion Starter #1
I’ve seen someone on this forum who said that
(a) it’s easy to remove the engine by itself,
And
(b) it doesn’t take more than a few hours.

Well, I’ve got a lot to learn.
Here’s how my day went (1974 GTV wSpica)

(1) radiator and coolant lines, hood, about 45 min incl cleanup.
(2) electrical, fuel lines etc. easy, but I tagged everything to be safe. 1.5 hours
(2) exhaust: yes, despite soaking things in PB Blaster overnight, several of the slip joint clamps broke. Then, the slip joints weren’t slipping. I had to dig out an old air chisel for slitting pipe, and lengthen the existing slits an inch, then use a long screwdriver to spread the slip joint. Total time to remove the entire exhaust ... 3.5 hours.

I’m into this more than five hours am an not close to pulling the motor.
(4) motor mounts (rusty nuts), and front sway bar, 45min.
(5) remove bolts holding trans to engine, set up cherry picker, pull a trolly jack under the transf. But also pulled the starter for better access.

Now I’m into it for over 7 hours.
(6) I raise the engine just enough to take the load off the mounts. Now I need to separate the engine & gearbox. The first inch came easily. Then it got stuck. No amount of prying and banging could get them separated more. After fiddling around for a solid hour I gave up and dropped the drive shaft trans mount and cross members so the engine and trans could come out together. Total time, about 11 hours.

I don’t see anyone could pull a motor in just a few hours.

What am I missing?
 

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I did it once... yes the tie rod, gearbox mount and driveshaft have to be disconnected so you can drop the tail... secured the gearbox to the firewall with a strap and eventually the engine was out. The real b*tch is to line up the input shaft when you are reinstalling the engine. Never did it again.

I don't have space to pull the engine and gearbox together, I pull the gearbox out then lift the engine.
 

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I started playing with Alfas in 71.
I was the parts manager at an Alfa dealer in the early 70s.
I’ve made lots of mistakes working on Alfas, but one I gave up trying 40 years ago was trying to remove just the engine.

Just say “no” and don’t second guess yourself.
 

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I have never attempted to remove the engine without the gearbox, but as Yves commented, bfeng's write-up said nothing about removing the center tie rod. With that still in place, yea, the engine could only come forward ~1" before the flywheel would hang up on the tie rod.

It sounds like many of the time-consuming parts of bfeng's experience were due to rusted fasteners / rusted exhaust components. Rusted fasteners have been less of a problem for me, though in my experience, the exhaust slip joints rarely come apart after getting deformed by the clamp.

As Yves also remarked "The real b*tch is to line up the input shaft when you are reinstalling the engine." The reason I have never attempted to remove (or replace) the engine alone is to avoid that operation. I have enough trouble getting the transmission to seat when the engine and trans are both on my garage floor.
 

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I pull the engine by it self. It might take longer but I am not doing it for money it's my car and there is less chance of damage when doing them in two pieces. To me it's like doing a main seal or clutch neither of which would I pull the engine. The longer the task takes the more joy.
 

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Actually, the reason I pull them together is because there is less risk of damage.

Getting the trans and engine to mate cleanly is fraught with issues. In addition to the possibility of damaging the clutch disk web, there’s all the banging about down in a tight space, wiggling and tilting to get it stabbed. I’ve learned to weigh the possible time saved against the time to go back in to redo whatever got damaged.

With a full power-unit extraction, I don’t need to separate any exhaust pieces except the two triangular flanges between the header and down pipe. Starter stays in place. Even alternator or generator stays attached.

I’ve never had an extraction take longer than half a day, working solo. I have air tools and an engine tilter. Reinstall action takes about the same amount of time, but adjusting the final bits for good running or testing whatever was done can add to it.
 

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For me it is way harder to remove both together. It takes me about 2 -3 hours to pull the motor in my cars. The problem I have with both together is I can’t get the trans shifter under the jump in the firewall easily . As for mating up input shaft into trans — once it starts to get close, adjust the crank until the splines mesh, push er home.

yes one side of steering rod must come out. I do driver side, easier to get to for me.
With my 12v Milwaukee impact driver I can have the sway bar out of the way in less than a minute. Using manual ratchet it’s three minutes— once you have done it, the next time will be 1/2 of this one, and the third one 1/2 again.

ps to remove the motor leave the exhaust in place, just remove the ex manifold ( using that 13mm snap on “S” shaped wrench) and the 6 bolts that join manifold to front section - take manifold out — away you go
 

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Goats

Do you have a good quality tilter? I use my air impact and can tilt the engine fore and aft easily and quickly. As you note, dealing with the shifter can be frustrating. With the tilter and a bit of care, it works
 

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Hi Don, I’ve never used a tilter although there is one here somewhere. I only have the one removal loop on the head, mounted in the middle — how does the tilter work ?
 

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Depending on the model of Alfa (I play with both aluminum and cast iron), I hook the rear sling to the lifting ring in the middle of the head and the forward sling around and under the water pump. With the trans on, it's going to hang tail low, which is what we want anyway.

On some occasions I'll run a rope around the back side of the head, and under the exhaust manifold or studs, and under the intake manifold. The rope will run across the front of the head. This lets me do a better job of raising the trans if I want to.

The removal from the engine bay will be very tail low, so the head-sling and water pump mainly lets me force the tail down to clear the shift lever from the tunnel.

It's easier with the cast iron, as there is a natural connection point at the front and rear of the head.
 

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Depending on the model of Alfa (I play with both aluminum and cast iron), I hook the rear sling to the lifting ring in the middle of the head and the forward sling around and under the water pump. With the trans on, it's going to hang tail low, which is what we want anyway.

On some occasions I'll run a rope around the back side of the head, and under the exhaust manifold or studs, and under the intake manifold. The rope will run across the front of the head. This lets me do a better job of raising the trans if I want to.

The removal from the engine bay will be very tail low, so the head-sling and water pump mainly lets me force the tail down to clear the shift lever from the tunnel.

It's easier with the cast iron, as there is a natural connection point at the front and rear of the head.
I use a tennis ball over the shifter stub
 

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The problem I have with both together is I can’t get the trans shifter under the jump in the firewall easily
We all have our tricks. I solve that issue by simply removing the shift "stub" from the transmission before pulling the engine-trans. Remove four 6mm bolts holding the shift tower vents and you can wiggle it out. Just keep track of which side the shims were on and DON'T drop them down into the transmission. Cover the hole with a piece of plastic secured by a rubber band or tie wrap.

I find this much quicker (and safer) than raising the rear of the car way up into the air.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Don,

you are right, no reason to have tried to separate them first. All it did was cause trouble. That’s said, I think I made two basic mistakes
(1) didn’t disconnect the propshaft/guibo or trans tail mount
(2) looks ok to oullrrans from below first, which gives time of rooom to pull the engine out 2nd.

I haven’t been this greasy in long time. I needed two showers before my wife would let me get in bed!

And my **** creeper kept rolling over my hair and pulling out strands (Covid-19 hairdo).

I plan to reinstall as a complete assembly, and I will use a load leveler (tilt control) as I work alone .
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I still don’t see how anyone could pull the motor in 3 hours. The only way I got the the engine and trans separated was to remove the trans mounts ( and prop shaft), and strap it to a trolley jack this allowed me to tilt the engine+trans assembly enough that the engine pulled forward/free. At that point the trans was essentially removed from the car. With everything level, I do not have enough space between the front of the sump and body to clear the 4 LONG studs which secure the bell housing to the motor. So, I have to lift up the engine a few inches, which puts enough torque on the j out shaft that it sticks in the spigot bushing (yes now it’s all buggered up.).

Plus, my car has headers so I have to undo the dual exhaust slip joint to get the headers FS. And that joint had old school clamps and was therefore a bear to get apart.

I think the second time around I could do it in under 8 hours as I’ll use stainless band clamps and lots of antiseize on the exhaust slip joints

Thanks everyone for the advice. I’ve oulled many a engine but each new car has its idiosyncrasies.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
BTW, I didn’t disconnect the veteran steering link (near the box). And swung it out of the way.

Goa: I still don’t see how anyone could pull the motor in 3 hours. The only way I got the the engine and trans separated was to remove the trans mounts ( and prop shaft), and strap it to a trolley jack this allowed me to tilt the engine+trans assembly enough that the engine pulled forward/free. At that point the trans was essentially removed from the car. With everything level, I do not have enough space between the front of the sump and body to clear the 4 LONG studs which secure the bell housing to the motor. So, I have to lift up the engine a few inches, which puts enough torque on the j out shaft that it sticks in the spigot bushing (yes now it’s all buggered up.).

Plus, my car has headers so I have to undo the dual exhaust slip joint to get the headers FS. And that joint had old school clamps and was therefore a bear to get apart.

I think the second time around I could do it in under 8 hours as I’ll use stainless band clamps and lots of antiseize on the exhaust slip joints. But this is a hobby so speed is relatively unimportant.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I’ve oulled many a engine but each new car has its idiosyncrasies that one needs to learn.

John
 
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