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I won't lie, when I did my mounts I didn't even give it more than a few seconds thought before just unbolting the thing from the plenum, then bent the **** brace down on the mount end....
How inelegant...:D

Well, seems going to the beach and hitting a bar was the answer. Just got back to the mount and fooled with it for one second, then undid the one small nut in the middle of the horizontal section I had holding the bracket. I could then tilt the bracket a little more, as well as pull it up and on an angle, while at the same time rotating the mount rearward and pressing the mount end in between the two flanges on the mount--finally reaching: "assembly is the reverse of removal...."

Put on some new nuts for both sides, as well as cleaned the coolant overflow bottle and a couple other misc items. Everything is back together, and all seems well on the test ride. Funny, I didn't even have any parts left over....:rolleyes:

Many thanks to everyone for all the info! I'll post pix of my tattered and battered mounts and accept my position on the 'Wall of Shame' for having let it go so long....
 

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Excellent thread! Dave, thank you for posting this, it made the job MUCH easier!

I changed the mounts in my 79 Spider and used this thread for directions, and started on the passenger side first. There were a couple of differences with my Spica setup on the passenger side mount. After pulling the air filter, disconnected the throttle rod from the Spica pump, moved the fuel filter, windshield washer reservoir and assorted starter wires and gas lines out of the way (with the battery disconnected first), then removed the starter support mount from the engine mount. I was able to access all 5 bolts on the engine mount without having to get under the car, and there's no plenum support to deal with. BUT - there's not enough room to remove the engine bolt on the mount closest to the Spica pump. The pump bracket didn't allow top access, and the crossframe blocked access from the bottom. I could get a wrench on the bolt, but no room to turn it! I left the bolt alone, removed the rest of the bolts and jacked the engine up. Once the engine was up a couple of inches, I was able to get to the bolt from under the pump. I put the new mount on and tightened that bolt down before lowering the engine again.

Driver side was a breeze. I had more issues reattaching the sump guard than with either mount. Took about 3 hours from jacking up the car to back on the ground again. I picked up over an inch of lift based on the clearance gain between the sump and the guard.
 

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Well, I got brave last night and did my mounts yesterday. I have access to a lift and all the tools imaginable and it was still a PIA!!!!!! I did remove the plenum as I am one of those people that needs to see what he is doing. Another reason for removing the plenum was that everything was soaked in oil on the passenger side which made it difficult to hold on to a wrench in those tight quarters. The entire process took me 4 hours with no break for cold beverages. Now that the plenum if off, I will bead blast it then clear it so it stays nice and clean. I found a ground strap that was dangling from the intake manifold and it wasn't attached to anything, I ended up attaching it to one of the block bolts on the mount. Wow, there is not much space under and around these cars.... No wonder mechanics charge an arm and a leg for work. A simple job like a motor mount can be very intimidating, but worth it when you DIY......
 

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Here, see if this is of use:
Bottom side of mostly intact plenum to manifold assembly with braided ground strap showing.

One end is tied to the front one of the 13mm head bellcrank bolts and the other would go to a block stud that passes through the manifold, like that spot between #1 and #2 intake runners near the cigarette butt on the floor.

 

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Thanks to sapilot143 and others. There is NO way I could have done the mounts on my 87 Graduate without this post. My wife and 4 yr old son are out of town for the week so I tackled this project. There is no way I was going to let a 4 yr old be around when the car is up on jack stands and my language was going to be so colorful.

I'd like to leave a few comments on my adventures here. First of all, several posters said it took them 3-4 hours TOTAL to do their mounts. Are you on speed? Must have better tools than me or took fewer beverage breaks. It took me close to four hours to get the passenger mount off. Probably three more to put it back on and get everything attached back. The driver's mount was a total of 45 minutes. Doing the passenger one first makes you wonder why Alfa wasted so much room on the driver's side :D Also, as mentioned by others... getting the sump guard back on was a surprisingly big PITA.

sapilot gives good advice. I tried not to touch much so I wouldn't break it. Just 15 minutes into the job, I sheared off the fan shroud bolt on the lower driver's side. I think there may be enough thread to get a new lock nut on. I need to go the hardware store and buy a new nut. Right now, that corner is loose on the stud. (The other nuts are tightened down so I don't think it is a danger.)

I don't know if sapilot misremembered or if my 87 is different. I only found two bolts holding the plenum bracket to the plenum. (I did a lot of plenum hugging as suggested by several Afisti.) There were also two bolts holding the throttle springy thing. I took this loose too. My motor mounts had three nuts attaching to the engine studs as sapilot said. But, the mounts only had one bolt to the frame (the upper one on both), the lower frame-to-mount attachment was via a 13mm nut onto a stud. Both sides.

By hugging the plenum I was able to do a bit more from above than sapilot implied. But you still gotta get down underneath alot. Boy, that opening behind the steering linkages on the passenger side is TIGHT. I have lots of scar tissue to prove it. I did NOT use socket extension to loosen the 4 underside plenum bolts from beneath the car as sapilot suggested. That is a LONG way and was not a straight shot. Never could get the socket to seat onto the bolt from beneath the car. And I couldn't even see two of the bolts from down there. Too many wires and hoses in the way and I had almost no room to move my hand. I did the plenum hugging thing and felt my way around to get the right combination of sockets on the bolts (see below).

The driver side mount was easy and I made it even easier by taking off the air flow doodad and air filter. I did all but the lowest nut from the top. The lower mount-frame nut on the driver's mount as a piece of cake. Lots of room and you can EVEN see the darn thing when under the car. (not necessarily true on the passenger side). Less than 45 minutes and I was taking it slow -- nursing my wounds and drinking pain medicine from a 12oz aluminum can. If both mounts were this easy, I'd replace them every time I bought new tires. But as has been stated many times before, the passenger side mount is a HUGE pain in the patooty.

Tools
I don't see how you could do this operation without a set of those cool little racheting closed/open-ended wrenches. Go get you a metric set TODAY! My mounts were so gum-dropped under weight that I couldn't get the closed end (racheting part) of the wrench around the nuts. Raised the engine up some removed the tension and rubber stood back up letting me get the racheting box wrench on. Then, the tight quarters often required I move the wrench back-n-forth with only one rachet click at a time..... very slow going. Lots of cursing.

By hugging the plenum with both arms down in the guts, I could sometimes get a real socket wrench onto my target from above. But you gotta have just the right length to get where you can move the socket driver handle. Let me explain...... My socket set is a 3/8 drive with a normal-sized racheting handle. I bought a cute little 1/4 drive socket driver with a short handle (about 5") at Lowes with a 1/4 to 3/8 adapter. This little guy could often rotate in the tight spots (still only a click or two) that the longer socket driver couldn't even be lowered into. Also, sometimes I needed a socket extender to get the wrench handle out into a relatively open spot to move. The short 4" extension in my socket set was too long. My solution: use a "deep socket"
without any extensions. The deep socket was long enought but not as long as my shortest extension with the normal socket. A few times, I started with one combination of socket driver, socket, and extender. As the nut or bolt backed out the geometry changed (read: got smaller/tighter) and I had to removed the extender and go to the naked deep socket instead.

In all I used
racheting box wrenches: 10mm (shroud), 13mm (most everything), 17mm (plenum bracket bolt)
sockets: 10mm (normal), 13 mm (normal and deep), 17mm (normal and deep)
regular 3/8 socket driver
short handle 1/4 socket driver with 3/8 adapter
4" extension, 10" extension (both 3/8)

Finally, my pictures. The mounts were a bit worse than the pictures indicate. When loaded, they were quite compressed. The engine sits noticeably higher in the engine bay now.

BEFORE:
Automotive tire Tire Auto part Automotive exterior Vehicle


DRIVER SIDE (not too bad):


PASSENGER SIDE (yikes!):
Auto part Metal


AFTER (The finished product):
Tire Automotive tire Auto part Automotive exterior Bumper




Did it work?
After I put everything back together (or so I thought) and allow the effects of my cold anesthetic beverages (notice the plural ;-) to wear off, it is time to take her out for a spin around the block. I turn the key and she starts up immediately. A bit rough on the idle but she always does that for 15-30 seconds when she's cold. OK, the idle seems a bit rougher than normal, she smells a bit smokier than normal, and ... the roughness is not going away. UGH. What did I screw up? Open the hood and take a look around. Everything looks good. Oh, I see it. I forgot to hook the air flow connector back up. Close the bonnet. Fire her up again. Smooth.

Put her into gear and pull out into the street. I get about 100m down the street and I then I think "Now, who has gone and put a new Japanese car tranny into my baby." WOW! The shifts are smooth and exact. I've owned two alfas and both shifted fine. Well, fine with a hint of resistance. If you want an exact, fact, smooth shift you had to push the lever to just the right place with just the right force. Now, I just push the lever in the right direction and it goes straight, smooth, and fast to the right spot.

After driving around for several miles -- this always happens to me in the spider. I go out to drive around the block and I end up driving for miles -- I start to sense that she feels much smoother. There is less vibration during idle and acceleration. Probably due to less torque on the crankshaft/tranny from the misaligned engine.

Is she faster? (Duh, she is already VERY fast -- she's red ;-) Nope.

The mounts will make your enjoyable drive an enjoyable and refined feeling drive. She shifts like a new, modern manual transmission now. I didn't even know that it was possible for alfas to shift like this at all -- much less my nearly 25 year old tranny.

To sum up: If your engine is droopy, go get some new mounts. Tear your skin and then watch for the grins to come to your face.

Thanks again alfabb forum.

JW
87 Graduate -- my redheaded mistress -- sexy and now with silky smooth shifts
83 Veloce -- a blonde (buttermilk yellow) plaything of the past -- rusting, sold years ago to make room for the redhead above
 
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I have been around Alfa's for a lot of years and I think this thread belongs in a special "classics type" thread. It contains all the information on how to pull each mount as well as some insight to how to get around problem areas as you are doing the job. It may sound like it is impossible but with threads like this and this board along with its members can get anyone through any job on these cars. I think it is better to keep $500.00 in your pocket rather than a mechanic's. Yes, mechanics are necessary for a lot of different jobs but this one is one a car owner can do.

The point has been proven by this thread and all the help coming from the web site members. Congratulations on a job well done; hope you had a "couple of beers afterward". You deserve them along with a pat on the back.

Steve Hurt
 

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well i more or less followed these instructions and it took me about 4 hours from start to finish... and i got to buy 200 dollars worth of new tools in the process!!!

i took the airbox off and undid a few hoses on the passenger side (i had the radiator out anyway) and it wasn't too bad... lol... it was a huge pain!

drivers side was 20 minutes, easy-peasy... engine goes up a ton on the jack, so no trouble removing or installing the mount.

passenger side... i wish skinning my knuckles was the problem, i avoided that but cursed so loud my neighbours noticed... it is so darn tight in there, i had a horrible time with the wrenches, i used stubby combination wrenches, stubby ratchet and socket, ratcheting wrenches and a lot of time to inch those nuts off... and then the bracket... getting it off was alright but getting it back on was ridiculous... pushing and pulling to get the holes lined up... my forearms were bruised from hugging the plenum...

that said, i have never felt such satisfaction from doing a mechanical fix... it was awesome... but boy did i have a few 'pat on the back' beverages after the shakedown drive...

thanks alfabb!!!!
 

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A big thanks to Sapilot143 and all others who contributed to this thread! I just replaced the saggy old mounts on my Spider with new units from Paul Spruell (did the transmission mount at the same time) and couldn't be happier with the results. You guys saved me hours of aggravation with this outstanding thread.

I joined the ranks of the Alfisti 2 years ago with mechanical experience which would not fill the back of an index card, but find that with the excellent print ressources and, more importantly, the vast expertise which very knowledgeable people like Sapilot143 share on the BB, a shade tree mechanic type like myself can keep an Alfa in very good nick. Thanks again for contributing to threads like this one.

One thing I would add to the thread: Getting the new passenger side mount in and the bracket properly re-inserted between the lips of the mount is a lot easier if you remove the threaded post with the rubber bushing that holds the rail support to the fuel rail (this is the post which the 10mm bolt on the underside of the rail support/bracket is attached to). This gives a lot more room to re-position the bracket, and is easy enought o screw back in before bolting the bracket back into place.

Best regards,
 

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This is a great thread - I just finished replacing the engine mounts on my 89 Graduate and I wouldn't have tried without these instructions.

Overall the process was much easier than I expected. I did remove the intake plenum because I found a crack in one of the rubber couplers. That helped quite a bit in terms of reaching the passenger-side mount. However, one small thing I noticed that has the potential to cause problems: while the block and crossmember studs are the same diameter, the former are fine pitch while the latter are standard, so don't mix the nuts up.
 

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..yes..if you play with your car as much as i do.. 3 hours easy.. but i must admit.. before i did the motor mounts..i did a gearbox change a few months earlyer.. and i did remove all the bolts / nuts from the motor, and used anti-seize on each one.. so my nuts/ bolts camee off easy durring my motor mount change a few months later... but i use anti seize on all the bolts, suspension, motor , trans, rear end, etc.. and new bolts as i need them..and i also clean all the parts i take off as i do any repair..
 

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I'm finishing up my brakes on my 71 (thanks Papajam!) and headed for the engine bay.... It's almost engine mount replacement time. I'm getting ready to order now so they'll be here by the time I finish up the brakes.

Question on the Spruell Mount reinforcements - Are they going to be like solid mounts in a racer car and transmit a lot of vibration?

http://www.spruellmotorsport.com/engine-mount-wreinforcement-p-99.html

Are they recommended by guys who have now had them in place for a while? Or, are they like the transmission mount stiffener which everybody regretss after a while?

In short, should I go for 'em?

thanks,

Lokki
 

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Lokki:

I ordered the Spruells when I redid my mount 2 years ago. No increased vibrations or anything like that. You'll note that the mounts also have the stock rubber, they just have the billet 'cup' over them, so there isn't really any material or density changes between the subframe and the block that may lead to increased vibratory transmissions.

Some may question the cost/benefit over just the stock mounts, but I don't have an answer/opinion for that one really. Guess its kindof like buying insurance....

Good luck with the job, and let us know how it goes!


Question on the Spruell Mount reinforcements - Are they going to be like solid mounts in a racer car and transmit a lot of vibration?

Engine Mount w/Reinforcement Kit - Spruell Motorsport, Inc - Performance and Racing Parts and Your Store for Sports Car Performance and Racing Parts

Are they recommended by guys who have now had them in place for a while? Or, are they like the transmission mount stiffener which everybody regretss after a while?

In short, should I go for 'em?

thanks,

Lokki
 

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Spruell mounts

I've had mine in for almost a year on my Spider, and couldn't be happier. I don't feel that they transmit more vibration than the standard OEM mounts (or if they do, imperceptibly so). I am getting ready to put them on my GTV as well.

The actual Spruell rubber mount is very similar (if not the same) as OEM, but the aluminum cap (i) prevents torquing of the rubber under load, which increases the stiffness and should increase the life of the mount and (ii) acts as a barrier to oil and other things which could otherwise drip down onto the rubber and decrease its lifespan.

I know a handfull of people who have gone to these, and everyone has been satisfied. I haven't heard anyone complain about more harshness or vibration.

While you're under the car, do you transmission mount as well (easy job, use the stock OEM part) since this makes a BIG positive difference in feel - driveline feels a lot more solid, but doesn't affect the overall softness of a stock Spider either. Your car will feel like it did when it first left Milan.
 

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I replaced my motor mounts about 6 months ago - looking at them now I see some surface striations running parallel to the long axis of the mount and a bit of flaking of the rubber surface. I've seen previous discussions of mounts that have gone bad quite soon and so should I be concerned? The photo below is the passenger-side mount.
 

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Ray, mine did the same thing after only a few months. Never was sure if the cracks were only superficial or if they extended into the mount. But the fan started to hit the lower part of the shroud, so I knew the engine was dropping. Just keep an eye on the clearance between the fan and shroud.
 

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I replaced my motor mounts about 6 months ago - looking at them now I see some surface striations running parallel to the long axis of the mount and a bit of flaking of the rubber surface. I've seen previous discussions of mounts that have gone bad quite soon and so should I be concerned? The photo below is the passenger-side mount.

That's just the black paint flaking off.
 
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I've got signs of the crankshaft pulley rubbing on the cross member - a shiny bit of metal instead of oil encrusted paint - so I'm thinking its probably time for new mounts.

This thread will be very helpful but can I just check a couple of points:

- Is the sump pretty robust, I don't want to put the jack in the wrong place and bust the sump?
- lifting the engine by 2 - 3" sounds a lot. Isn't there a danger of bending/cracking the exhaust, for example? Or should the exhaust mounts be slackened off somewhere?

I know it must work 'cos you've all done it but some reassurance would be good.
 
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