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Discussion Starter #1
Ladies and gentlemen:

You'll recall that I brought up the issue of the fan hitting the shroud on my '86 Veloce. In that connection I mentioned replaced engine mounts and also badly worn out engine mounts on my '87 Quadrifoglio.

The '86 Veloce engine mounts are brand new, and I am getting progressively more noise from the fan hitting the lower edge of the shroud.

It has just been brought to my attention by a Ferarri friend of mine that some cars have a torque compensator, which prevents the engine from meandering all over the place under acceleration.

Any ideas, thoughts, guidance?

Thanks as always,

Simon
 

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Uncontrollable torgue in your 80's spider? :p

I would double check the engine and trans mount and maybe the radiator/shroud mounting.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Uncontrollable torgue in your 80's spider? :p

I would double check the engine and trans mount and maybe the radiator/shroud mounting.
That was my initial diagnosis and intent. All three mounts are less than 5,000 miles old. The shroud is new. I'll be seeing Julio, my mechanic, in less than 2 hours.

My question, though, is, is there a "torque compensator" on the car?
Does anyone know definitively?

Thanks,

Simon
 

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It seems to be a geometry issue and looking at all of the mounts, motor, trans, radiator and shroud must be done. Maybe the fan was changed at some point????

Pictures (of the car will suffice) will help us that are thousands of miles away from the problem better assess it or at least feel good that we don't have this specific issue to deal with :)
 

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If the car is new to you, you might consider the possiblility of some PO mis-repaired front end damage that left things a bit out of whack.
 

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Get rid of that PIECE of crap plastic fan and shroud and put in an electric fan. It works much better and you'll even get a little more power.
 

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If you replace the fan and don't want to convert to electric use the European fan (Centerline I think). It is smaller in diameter and my mechanic said that in his many years or experience they don't explode like the US fans do.

Replace the motor mounts with the mounts from Spruel. They limit the engine torquing.
 

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That was my initial diagnosis and intent. All three mounts are less than 5,000 miles old. The shroud is new. I'll be seeing Julio, my mechanic, in less than 2 hours.

My question, though, is, is there a "torque compensator" on the car?
Does anyone know definitively?

Thanks,

Simon
Mileage is no guarantee... Even if not used, rubber dries out and has a limited shelf life. Are you sure the mounts are not deteriorating? Furthermore, the installation is critical. I have seen Spiders with new motor mounts where these, especially the passenger side, have not been tightened down all the way, and boy does the engine move upon acceleration. Regardless, as Elio stated, the fan should not hit the shroud, and this should not be hard at all to accomplish.

Best regards,
 

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Is the radiator sitting on the proper rubber mount and fully seated into that mount with said mount fully planted into the crossmember?

For every little bit that's not put together right, the shroud moves onnaconna its tied onto the radiator not the framework.

Just getting that out there.
 

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Torque should move (twist) the motor up and to the right (passenger side) of the car
If the fan is hitting the bottom of the shroud check to be sure it's centered with the engine turned off.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Get rid of that PIECE of crap plastic fan and shroud and put in an electric fan. It works much better and you'll even get a little more power.
That is something to consider. How involved is the job? I'm rather fond of stock.
I had after market ignition system. With all the problems the car had I ended up going back to stock, although the ignition itself was not at fault, or at least it does not appear to have been.
 

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Replacing with electric isn't too hard. I did mine last spring after the fan blew up while merging onto the freeway. The most difficult part is sourcing a fan that will fit in the space between radiator and engine. That and dealing with the disparaging look that Julio gave me when I was there for other repairs.

Since it appears that we may be in the same area (though there may be quite a few Alfa mechanics named Julio!), I'd be glad to give you a hands on look...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Replacing with electric isn't too hard. I did mine last spring after the fan blew up while merging onto the freeway. The most difficult part is sourcing a fan that will fit in the space between radiator and engine. That and dealing with the disparaging look that Julio gave me when I was there for other repairs.

Since it appears that we may be in the same area (though there may be quite a few Alfa mechanics named Julio!), I'd be glad to give you a hands on look...
My Julio is Julio Matos of the Milano Motors in Kensington, MD.
Is that your Julio?
He is a great guy. Just brought two knitted hats from Peru for my children.
A wonderful fellow.
 

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yep, same Julio. Only been there once so far, but he saved my bacon. And let me poke around the shop a bit and take a look at the car on the lift, so he gets a thumbs up in my book.
 

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I agree with keeping things stock in my Alfas. But that cooling method is a defect!! I've had them explode on me twice. If it's a show car it's important, but as a driver no way.
I was also able to mount my fan in front of the radiator. The hole on the lower drivers side for the thermal switch is already there or at least it was on my 82. It only comes on in traffic. Centerline has a 12' fan that fits great in the opening. A thermal switch for a Alfetta, Milano or GTV-6 will screw into the radiator. It leaves a nice openning between the radiator and the motor and it make life easier for future maintance.
 

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I'm not trying to start an argument here, but there's simply too much bad information on this thread...

First, the Spider cooling system works very well. Even in extreme temperatures the needle stays right in the middle. Furthermore, the components found in an Alfa Spider’s engine bay are of very good quality. They last years and years. I’ve been a continuous Spider owner since the mid seventies, and I have never had a fan explode. The three Spiders in my signature are current cars and serious transportation. They go from OH to NJ at a drop of hat. The ‘84 even pulls a little trailer and goes on the track at the Alfa conventions, and its air conditioning will freeze one out of the car.

It is not difficult at all to return a Spider back to spec and have a system where the engine and attached fan are properly aligned with the radiator and attached fan. However, at professional Alfa mechanic rates, even a few hours of work will amount to several hundred dollars. The more neglected the engine bay, the more parts that have to be replaced and the longer it takes to re-do things the right way.

The Bosch and other European parts found in the Spider engine bay are not cheaply made, but by the same token, they are not cheap to buy. In fact, they are much more expensive than any aftermarket part. It is understandable that an owner always looks at cost, and if it weren’t for the aftermarket parts some of us would not be able to afford to keep a Spider running. Regardless, installing an aftermarket electric fan is not an improvement. At best, one will simply be able to reproduce the rock steady needle in the middle that the stock set-up yields.

If one is holding the accelerator pedal all the way down to the floor, and suddenly the load of the mechanical fan was removed, one would experience a performance gain proportional to what it takes the engine to spin the fan. However, since one doesn’t drive on the street with the accelerator pushed all the way down, all one needs to do to get more out of a Spider on the street is to push the pedal down a bit more. Similarly, while it makes sense for a racer to remove any engine load that allows him to rev the engine quicker and gain just a few 100ths of a second, this simply is not something that anyone will perceive while driving on the street.

The usual US Alfa suppliers carry aftermarket electric fan units that fit our Spiders. They have done the work for us and one can be assured that the set-up that they are selling will work. Nonetheless, the installation is up to the owner. It is possible to install the electric fan with plastic ties that are laced through the radiator fins, but this is not the way any car manufacturer would do it. The alternative is to fabricate brackets, which is a much more involved proposition. It is up to each individual to decide on the level of work one wants to put into his vehicle. By comparison however, it is not a bad idea to see how the Alfa factory did the electric fan conversion. For that, one has to look no further than into the engine bay of a 1990 or later series 4 Spider. Starting in said year, Spiders were fitted with dual electric fans. The whole set-up is a bit different than a typical aftermarket installation, but then, the OEM set-up carried a warranty a bit longer than the 30 days that come with the aftermarket parts.

I’m not saying that there is anything wrong in choosing to install an electric fan to replace the original mechanical unit. In fact, I had an electric fan fitted into my ’74 Spider. At that time the mechanical fan was over 20 years old, and while I wasn’t having any issues, I thought it prudent to consider replacing it, since I know that even good parts don’t last forever. I do think it is fun and cool to have the electric fan out of sight, in front of the radiator, while opening up the space in front of the engine. This mod however, is cosmetic, and since I had mounting brackets made, it was more expensive than simply replacing the OEM plastic fan.

Best regards,
 
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