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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Figured that I would also document this conversion here for the heck of it!

This car has been under construction at G2 in Seattle ( www.group2inc.com) for the past year or so now and it is finally at the point where it was time for me jump in and help sort the GoTech installation. We all made a big push this weekend to get the entire car to the point where we can fire this thing on Monday!

Here are some shots from a prior post of the car under construction...

Also, there are those here that will tell you that when it comes the time for me to do wiring, it is best to have the fire-marshal and her trusty fire-dog "Frida" on hand! :D (They both look a bit worried! :confused: ) And so...
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
The GoTech wiring harness has some nifty labels on most of it (and even without it - most of the wiring is pretty intuitive.)

It is easier if you lay it out on a carpet in your living room with an appropriate beverage in one hand and the cell-phone in the other (with me on the line - or somebody who knows what they are doing if you prefer :D ) and get a walk-though on the bulk of the leads (by process of elimination.)

It is easy to spot the 4 or 6 or 8 or 12 injector leads. Pull them aside and you have half the battle won! (I will warn you that even I get stuck sometimes and may need to go ask for answers!) Either way - it gets easier the more you "eliminate" leads as "known" factors...

Then - in short - you have a harness connector on the other end of the loom to go to the back of the GoTech ECU box (two looms and connectors for the Pro and Pro-X) - a 12-pin and a 16-pin. Then there is also a conventional 9-pin serial-port connector on the front of the GoTech with a separate com. cable coming from the harness (to link your laptop to the ECU for tuning!) On the Standard model the com. cable is wired in to the loom and plugs in to the back of the GoTech with the one main loom!

Then you have the water-temp input plug, the crank-angle sensor plug (on the Pro and Pro-X), or a hall-sender connector on the Standard GoTech to go coil-fire-direct from the distributor! (In the case of this Pro installation - coil-packs - no dizzy - no hall-effect!) We'll be running a 60 minus two crank-pulley and a magnetic pick-up crank angle sensor (like most modern EFI setups!)

There is a TPS plug, as well as a tail that has an air-temp sender already on there for you! There are also some extra GPOs (General Purpose Outputs) to drive things such as a tach, or a shift-light or whatever. There is a fuel-pump output and the Pro-X will also have outputs to drive your fan(s)... Finally, the back of the boxes all have a vacuum-tube sticking out of them to hook up Manifold Absolute Pressure from your manifold or t-bodies... The tube is already connected to a pressure sensor inside of the ECU to run MAP.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Here are some shots of the later model Alfa/Bosch-style quick-release "AMP" connectors already installed on the harnesses for us!

Nifty - you will like them if you have ever had to sit there and pick at a cracking old L-jet connector to get it off! (You just squeeze and pull these to remove them!) The GoTech harness has a nice "Power-Braid" web-sheathing over all of the tails and main loom-section!

Here is also a close-up of the air-temp sensor that comes with it!

About the only two connectors to crimp and seal are the positive and negative leads!

Also, here is a shot of the magnetic crank-angle sensor that will give the ECU a clue where TDC is. (Optimal placement is 9 to 16 teeth after the 2 missing teeth on the pulley comes by and it requires a custom bracket that will hold it within a millimeter of the rotating pulley and teeth....

You will also notice that there is a potentiometer installed on one of the tails (you want to pull that back to the interior of the car.) It offers a 10% lean/10% rich adjustment of the entire curve - across all rpm-ranges - at a flick left or right (Valuable quick-tuning tool that we can talk about later...)
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
After removing anything to do with the OEM engine management harness (such as the Motronic wiring on the later Spiders, or the L-Jet wiring on the older Spiders, Milano and GTV6 cars), figure out what the best way is on your individual car to pull the harness through the fire-wall!

Source appropriate big new fire-wall grommets (you can even re-use the old ones - just cut the old wiring out of it and clean it up a bit...) Sometimes you have to split it on one side to get the old wires out or to fit one end of the GoTech custom harness through it! Pull the harness through the fire-wall and start spreading things out just like you had it on the floor of your house/office/bedroom - whatever!

Start laying the various tails out conceptually in the directions of sensors, injectors, power and ground-sources.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
In a previous link about this little ' 72 GTV I posted pictures of the 4 individual-unit ITBs from South Africa;

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=32625&highlight=nelson+gtv

For this installation, we chose to utilize the two double sets of TWM/Webber ITBs (for no particular reason other than the fact that Group 2 has them in stock and the GoTech ITBs are slated for another project down the line...) These are also the same units that we installed on Joe's ' 74 GTV, so the mapping is already pretty much done for a 2.0 with these and GoTech!

Here are some close-ups of the rubber head-spacers to ITB and ITBs to trumpets/torque-tubes. Also, some shots of the injectors, fuel-rail installation and these nifty full-hose connectors that they stock there now!

The vacuum-tubes that we will be using to hook up MAP is also clearly visible - there is one on each ITB
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Next, we mounted a fuel-pressure regulator and bracket and one of the new custom crank-pulleys that G2 developed! (In the past we took a stock pulley, had 60 teeth machined in to the one leading edge of it and installed a crank-angle sensor from an Alfa 164 24 valve - it worked great, but the alternator belt tends to interfere a bit with the sensor so you have to run one that is pretty thin to work!

For this one we used the custom pulley and selected a less expensive sensor than the LS unit.

Also, you have to make a custom aluminium plate to block-off the hole from the SPICA as well as a plate to block off the old distributor hole!
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Now, one of the other things that you have to do is to sort the car's OEM wiring a bit... You can use an ohm meter (or I just take a test-light) to find out what is hot and what is not, what has switched power from the ignition and what has cranking-signal from the key etc etc.

You also have to find a port (easy on the L-Jet cars) or tap the OEM 4-cylinder manifold for another temp-sender (to give the GoTech engine temp info!) The ECU will use this input to adjust fuel mixtures when the car is warm, or to enrich the mixture a bit for cold-start!

Next, it is a good idea to run some relays for the fuel-pump, the starter and the ECU (Joe is pretty good with the electrical aspect of things - it's always been my weak-knee...) He made up a quick little harness stringing the 3 together and I hooked them up accordingly! (Some of the wires got a bit toasty during crimp and solder - not all connectors are shrink-tube type!) - No matter - some of it will get cut to size and crimped and sealed and soldered and shrink-tube sealed after testing!

You also need a good ground for the ECU (in addition to the main grounds supplied from the engine to the chassis!) Don't rely on a ground running from the ECU through the chassis to the engine - make an ECU ground direct from the ECU!) The GoTech basically just makes grounds all day (for the sensors, for the injectors, etc etc), so it in turn needs a really solid ground back to the engine!)

A power take-off from the starter-wire/battery-positive is very useful - again to supply good solid feeds to the relays for the ECU, the starter, the fuel-ump (and on the later cars - for the fan relay...)
 

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Must admit I'm partially posting so as to get on the 'mailing list' of this thread.

Would this set-up work well for a stock Twin Spark, or would it not be worth - regarding, time, cost, but especially from perhaps not enough gains - to switch out the stock Motronic for the Gotech Pro? If it is felt it would be 'highly advantageous' could the TS' stock inlet manifold be retained?

I'll add here that my TS resided at G2 for some time before moving south.

Biba
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Thanks Slapbass!

Biba, I'm confused... (comments removed to PM/Email...)

With this system 180 horsepower from a fresh TS, is a walk in the park! Glenwood has done several.

You can email me via [email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Re-using the OEM manifold on a Nord Spica engine (drilled out to accept EFI injectors) and the addition of the GoTech to convert a carbi car or a SPICA car to true EFI on a budget, is pretty-well documented already - it's been done (we did Brian's Alfetta that way...!)

Biba, this will be even easier on her TS (since it is already an EFI setup!)

I did all of the custom coatings on that engine (for the previous owner before he decided to sell it to your customer) and from what I saw it would be EXTREMELY easy to convert! The motor already had a 60 minus 2 crank pulley setup with a Bosch magnetic crank-angle sensor on there!

You would re-use the same injectors (I already had them serviced) and simply toss-out the OEM wiring, drop the useless, (restrictive) AFM (and various other pieces) and just add the GoTech and harness! You would just add 2 sets of 4-pack coils (I can help supply those) and then simply add 8 spark-plug wires...

Just from removing the AFM we see very decent power-gains on the V6 cars and I would suspect the same would be the case from dropping that TS Motronic AFM!

The Pro runs 900 USD (including the custom harness with connectors on there, an air-temp sensor, pressure-sender to run MAP - all of it included!)

BattleBug, if purely price is what you are after, this system is not for you. This is a fully-programmable, professional, stand-alone engine management system - complete - turn-key! (The arguments for and against the build-it-yourself MS systems are legendary here, so we won't go there again...)

As compared to SDS, Autronic and a slew of others, it is VERY affordable! (1,600 to 2,300 for most others in this range!) I won't even get in to the Motec at 3K plus including a roll of wires...

DWC - your '87 should also be a breeze! Anybody can give me a ring at 425.941.4747 and we can talk some more, or contact email me via [email protected] !

Biba - no offense - it was just burned in to my memory a bit there. It is my understanding that there is a communication by phone "issue" - feel free to use my email!
 

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Jungle, actually I'd replied to your email before coming here and was pleasantly surprised to find your detailed answer to my EFI questions.

My client is actually a friend who was acting on my behalf for both the purchasing of the engine as well as having it crated and shipped. As of now it will go into my spare Alfetta GT. I restore Alfa Spiders for a living and if a client came to me wanting a TS (especially if the requirement was for more power but to also be able to pass CA's stringent smog tests) I'd probably offer it to them. I know a guy who has a test only station and isn't too concerned what an engine looks like as long as it has the same number of cylinders, is about the same size, and of course can pass the test. It appears as if a new law in CA is going to pass whereas all cars after '75 and up to (not sure but will guess, 2000) will have to be tested yearly, rather than semi-annually.

This is another reason I want to know what the options are for both myself (as I stated, a Plan B) and if the client 'wants the best'. I currently have two client Spiders in at the moment (neither of which will get a TS) and one is budget, the other is pretty much 'whatever it takes'. So those clients do exist.

I was pretty sure the TS would be easier to convert (than a nord), but really appreciate your verifying it.

Especially if the TS should go into a client's car and who wants an EFI system, I'm assuming we could work out an arrangement for you to help me trouble shoot and I would compensate you for your time. Also, client's expect me to purchase items at the best costs (most have IAP's and Centerline's catalogs for instance) but if the situation should arise and you can purchase a system and sell to me for what I could get it for, that would would work me.

I'm aware this is a personal situation, but might give others some insight as to how to best proceed on a project like this.

I'll be interested in finding out how 'your' nord engine turns out and didn't mean to hijack this thread.

Biba
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Fired her up tonight - sounds like we are on the right track... I'll post more details and pics later - working hard to get this one sorted right now...
 

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Jungle, just letting my fingers do the walking I went to a MegaSquirt dealer's site. I gather that is 'product' you're referring to when you commented, "(The arguments for and against the build-it-yourself MS systems are legendary here, so we won't go there again...)." I could see where it 'might' be fun...if someone is an electronic genius.

I also tried to find the BattleBug system but the only reference to it was this thread. Expen$ive doesn't appeal to me, but this does - "This is a fully-programmable, professional, stand-alone engine management system - complete - turn-key!"

To repeat, I'm merely kicking tires at this time, but I do want to know what is available, along with costs, and ease/difficulty of installing.

Congratulations for getting the GoTech / nord engine running.

Biba
 

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Biba,
I'm not a 'system'!:rolleyes: Tho' I am interested in ditching my L-Jet for something I can build/use/modify on my own (& you don't need to be an electronic genious with MS)

JJ- For an otherwise stock motor-perhaps previous Ljet-what does this system offer over MSII? What features, tunability, flexibility, etc. justify $900?
:)Not flamin' just curious?
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
For****sakes dude! With all due respect - I clearly said that we were not going to go there again in this thread! (I'm sick of the arguments that build up over bull**** - just because somebody with an agenda comes along and hijacks a thread...!)

BattleBug, if purely price is what you are after, this system is not for you. This is a fully-programmable, professional, stand-alone engine management system - complete - turn-key! (The arguments for and against the build-it-yourself MS systems are legendary here, so we won't go there again...)
If you want to ask MS questions, please start an MS thread!

If you want to compare the two systems, feel free to start a separate thread asking feature to feature comparison questions! I started this thread because I have been asked on several occasions to detail the installation of a GoTech step-by-step...

Don't mean to be rude, but get a clue already!
 
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