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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,
I just finished installing a Ford wasted spark (EDIS) system on my 79 2L.
Apart from adapting the 36-1 toothed gear to fit the harmonic balancer it was a very easy job.

Has anyone else installed one of these? I would be interested in what your advance curve looks like. I plan to just emulate the mechanical curve so does anyone know what the PRM Vs BTDC curve for a stock 2L is?

I'll fire her up first using the EDIS's default limp home 10 deg and later set the curve in the megasquirt.
 

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Hi,
I just finished installing a Ford wasted spark (EDIS) system on my 79 2L.
Apart from adapting the 36-1 toothed gear to fit the harmonic balancer it was a very easy job.


Brett:

A little more detail, please!!!!!! :)

The 36-1 toothed gear is a Ford part, right?

Sounds like a visit to the 'ole local Pick-N-Pull is in order.
 

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I use the ford type coil but control it with a VEMS. When I did this I asked for timing. and the stock motroic(I think) plot was posted. I more or less used the same timing.
I do not have my laptop here so I can not pull my timmings.
but if you do a search I bet you will find that post and it will give a good start.
 

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Discussion Starter #5

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this was the tread I was thinking but it looks like the same thing
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=13288

I was only runing spark so I added some advance again at the lower RPMs just under idle I start to ramp it back up. this helps give a stable idle. if the rpm drops too low I give extra advance so it will speedup.

And if you get a MAP connected up you can advance it more with MAP readings. this helps in the MPG a lot. with lot of vac (aka small load) you can crank up the advance without pinging. And retard it as the load goes up.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks sly for your input. very helpful.
I fired her up today. Started first go, and sat on a static 10 deg advance (limp mode). Seems much smoother at idle.

Anyway here are some pics...



This is the pressed in carrier for the 36-1 tooth gear. Rather than attaching it to the outer harmonic balancer I decided to machine up a carrier that pressed into the inner hub of the crank pulley.


Here is the hub with the gear fitted


And now with the sandwich plate fitted. This allows me infinite adjustment.


EDIS4 control module mounted on firewall. Nice and compact


MS relay board with additional fused relay for ignition.


Coil pack. Numbering on lead posts matches alfa firing order 1342.


VR sensor on sturdy bracket.
 

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Nice writeup, Ihave an almost complete system laying around, except the VR-sensor and the toothed gear. Do you by any chance have the part# for that sensor? The wheel is custom made, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Both the wheel and the sensor came off the escort.
If you contact the seller in my earlier post he will sell these parts separately. They are quite cheap.

The wheel is pressed onto the escorts harmonic balancer so you need to find a way of attaching it to the alfa's balancer.
The easiest way would be to drill holes and bolt it up to face of the pulley. It nearly fits as it is and would require just a slight skim for a perfect fit.
However I didn't want to do that because I wanted it to run off the crank side of the harmonic balancer.
Seen too many balancers slip over the years.
 

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Both the wheel and the sensor came off the escort. If you contact the seller in my earlier post he will sell these parts separately. They are quite cheap.


Cheap, simple, elegant. This is true to hot-rod tradition, Brett. Knowing Fords penchant for parts commonality, I've got a feeling that these parts are common to several other 4cyl Fords, probably Ranger/Mazda pick-ups. If they are, that means we have access to a huge supply of dead cheap, high quality ignitions.

Since these are Ford parts, I wonder if the programmable ignitions like MSD and Electromotive would work? Probably, they would. It would be useful to be able to tailor an advance curve to a specific motor. Come to think of it, you can probably also drive the ignition with the MSII.

Good work! :)

I like the way you've set up the fused relay in the MS box. Is that how MS is set up, or did you do it yourself? I'd think a fused relay would be pretty essential. Earlier, you'd commented about MS being so cheap that it makes sense to carry another MS box as a spare. That made a lot of sense to me.

I can imagine the difficulties posed by having a dead Alfa in the wilds of west Texas or OZ's outback----and then having the challenge of trying to source fairly obscure FI components thrown into the mix. Not fun at all. That's sure to happen to somebody and, with my luck, it would probably be me. Electronics do go bad. That concern alone was enough to make me decide that sticking with carbs might be a better plan of action. However, with your approach for a few hundres bucks you can have an emergency kit with you which will just about replace anything critical that brakes. I like that a lot.
components
 

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Discussion Starter #11
you can probably also drive the ignition with the MSII.
That's exactly what I'll be doing. EDIS is practically the default ignition control for MS.
I like the way you've set up the fused relay in the MS box. Is that how MS is set up, or did you do it yourself?
The relay box was originally designed for fuel only MS1 but there are extra channels allowing for ignition and fast idle stepper motors etc. You don't really need the extra relay but I thought it would be a good idea.
I can imagine the difficulties posed by having a dead Alfa in the wilds of west Texas or OZ's outback
There is a huge misconception about the so called ozzy outback. Australia is the most urbanised nations on earth and very few of us ever venture too far into our own backyard. Also, we have one the highest number of vehicle manufacturers represented here than almost any other country including the US.
We also have some excellent roadside assistance organisations where for just a couple of hundred dollars a year you can get towed home from just about anyway for free. Some even include a free hire car so that you can continue your holiday.
So breaking down here presents about the same problems as for any other westernised country.

But just for some fun here is a quick vid on some real outback motoring.
These guys can keep a 30 year old 2wd car going in places you'd never even dream of taking a modern 4wd.
 

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That's exactly what I'll be doing. EDIS is practically the default ignition control for MS.

The relay box was originally designed for fuel only MS1 but there are extra channels allowing for ignition and fast idle stepper motors etc. You don't really need the extra relay but I thought it would be a good idea.

There is a huge misconception about the so called ozzy outback. Australia is the most urbanised nations on earth and very few of us ever venture too far into our own backyard.

OK, delete outback and insert west Texas. :) We have to go there if we're heading to California and it's miles and miles of. . . miles and miles. If you break down in an Alfa out there people won't exactly find your bleached bones years later, but it sure helps to know what went wrong. Actually, it's kind of an exenstential place, serene and very quiet at night. But, really, it's something you cross to get to someplace else.

Your post and photos cause me to plug back into Megasquirt stuff again. I just read about MSII version 3's improvements. It looks like they added some circuit protection and upgraded the hardware---that's good.

A question. If you are using MS to drive the EDIS, does that give you the ability to map your ignition curve to your specific motor? I don't think the EDIS is programmable, probably not something they'd put on an Escort, by itself.

One advantage of working with SPICA designed nord motors here in the States is they have this nifty mount for the FI pump which is just right for mounting the VR sensor. Also the Spica throttle body is well designed and I think it can be fairly easily modded for EFI injectors. That way you'll be able to use the Alfa OEM throttlebody, linkage, and air box with MSII and EDIS.

If you build the kit, it's amazing how cheap the Megasquirt hardware is.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Actually, it's kind of an exenstential place, serene and very quiet at night.
As an existentialist myself I'm pretty big on that kind of thing ;)
A question. If you are using MS to drive the EDIS, does that give you the ability to map your ignition curve to your specific motor?
Yep http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/tune.htm#spark
The MS is the master and the EDIS the slave.
Only if the slave doesn't hear from its master does it go into limp mode of 10 deg fixed.
 

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it might just be me but your "sturdy bracket" looks weak to me.
With the mass of the VR on the end of a length of bent bar. it looks like the bars could start going like a tuning fork.
It looks like there is a lot of length from where it is bolted and where the mass of the VR is. It looks to be over a inch. it just does not look like it will be safe over the RPM range. just a gut feeling...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If there were enough engine vibration to cause that thing to oscillate then I think I'd have more important things to be worried about.

Besides, us aussies have a magic spell that prevents failure and misfortune.

While exhaling through your nasal passage (that's how we get our distinctive accent) you utter the follow incantation as quickly as possible.
"sheelbe-rytmate"
Works every time. ;)
 

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FYI...

All Ford controlled products (most Ford products worldwide) uses a 36-1 toothed wheel.

What separates the Escport 1.9 SPI from the rest is that the wheel is on the outside of the motor. Most of our engines have the wheel inside the front cover. So in terms of scrounging parts, the Escort is the easy source.

For the VR sensor, pretty much any VR sensor will work- on a project of mine, we used a ABS wheel speed sensors, and it was perfect.

As mentioned, the EDIS module is not programmable, nor was it really programmed to run advance- it got the signal from the EEC module. What you do have to be careful though, in looking for parts, was that in the mid-90's, we brought the small EDIS module on board with the EEC module.

There are a few varieties of EDIS, BTW- basic 4 cyl with one coil pack, there was a twin plug 4 cyl that was used on Rangers (nice conversion for TS motors, eh?), a 6 pack coil for 6 cyl cars, and a dual 4 pack for 8 cyl cars. We also rigged up two 6 cyl set ups for an early V12 that eventually found its way to Newport Pagnell.

The EDIS is an awesome system- works like a charm, and parts should be easily available in junk yards by now.

Eric
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Finally got around to firing using megasquirt to control the advance and she runs fine.
Even the tacho works using the output from the EDIS module.

Now I just have to open up my plug gaps and start fine tuning.
 

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Finally got around to firing using megasquirt to control the advance and she runs fine.
Even the tacho works using the output from the EDIS module.

Now I just have to open up my plug gaps and start fine tuning.

Hi, Brett:

My wife's Ranger pick-up has an EDIS ignition (two coil packs) and is currently acting up (no spark apparently--we've had a lot of rain lately so something's wet or corroded) so I'm learning about EDIS ignitions the hard way.

I was looking at a MegasquirtNSpark site tonight and found in interesting list of European cars with the EDIS ignition. If you have the equilivant of Pick-N-Pull salvage yards (you pull the parts yourself--very cheap parts) in OZ there's probably a ready supply of EDIS ignition parts just waiting for your visit. :) Something interesting I noticed in the list are part #'s that are "known to support multiple spark". I didn't know Ford had designed that into their ignitions.

One of our local P-N-P's is actually a pretty bucolic place and rather plesant to vist, especially in early fall or spring. Several years ago I took my former boss there to find a rear seat for her Honda. Birds were chirping, the sun was shining and here was this very proper lady amid this vast sea of cars with all the mangy characters (myself included) up to their elbows in old car parts. She was quite amazed, had never seen anything like it. Said the whole place looked like something Bladerunner. :)

The first chance I get (after I get my wife truck going and it quits raining here) I'm heading out to the local P-N-P with tools in hand. I can probably scrounge a complete single coil pack EDIS for about $20US. A new 36 tooth trigger wheel costs about $14US. It's worth that to keep from having to crawl under the car and remove the front pully.


From the MegasquirtNspark site:

Where to get the EDIS bits you need? Also see the Pictures page

1a) EDIS4 module
1989-1993 Fiesta XR2i 1.6
1990-1992 Fiesta RS turbo
1989-1994 Escort 1.6i
1990-1994 Orion 1.6i
Modules are all in the engine bay and typically located in the middle of the bulkhead or the right hand side as you face the car.
Pictures page
Known part numbers are: 89FB-12K072-AC, 91AB-12K072-AA*

Do not confuse with the ESC II hybrid module which has a vacuum tube and comes on the carb model cars.
Picture of plastic one There is also an aluminium one to avoid as well.

1b) EDIS6 module
up to 1995ish Mondeo V6 automatic
Ford/Cosworth Granada Scorpio 24v V6
Module located rear left of engine bay as you face the car.
Known part numbers are: 90GB-12K072-AB
 

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Discussion Starter #19
in OZ there's probably a ready supply of EDIS ignition parts just waiting for your visit. :)
No, we never got any cars with edis over here.

Something interesting I noticed in the list are part #'s that are "known to support multiple spark". I didn't know Ford had designed that into their ignitions.
I run mine in multispark mode. Not sure if it's working or not.
 

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It's been so wet in this part of Texas that I haven't visited my local PickNPull's collection of old Escorts so that I can scrounge a cheap EDIS
ignition. I think I'll wait until things dry out a bit on that project.

In the meantime, I was web surfing and discovered a couple of interesting factoids:

www.trigger_wheels.com is based in the UK and is a supplier for, as you may imagine, trigger-wheels . . . and EDIS ignitions. Their prices are quite reasonable given the quality of the components.

A company is offering the "Megajolt" controller which is designed to mate with EDIS ignitions and allow for a fully mapped ignition. Their setup is much like Megasquirt's (although different companies) although the Megajolt is an ignition controller only. This would work great if you're running a Spica modified motor but want the advantages of a programmable, mapped ignition.

Having recently had to closely invistigate the EDIS igntion on my wife's Ranger Pickup I can attest to the very high quality of both the system's design and components. The EDIS is definitely worth looking at.
 
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