Early history of 6C 1750 GS

4571 Views 16 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Tadini, Apr 14, 2014

Tadini

Discussion Starter · Feb 4, 2011

Hello,

can anybody help with information on the early history of an Alfa 1750 GS which we have in our workshop. It is a sixth series car, VIN 121215065. We know the lst three owners back to approx. 1968. The car is said to have come to Switzerland at that time from Tshechoslowakia, but this is just what the auctioneer at that time said. It would be very nice to get information other that what I can find in Fsi´s and Angela Cherrett´s books.

Thank you for every contribution.

Besides, we are planing to make a reproduction series of an original Memini Carburettor. Anybodyx interested is welcome to get in contact. Naturally, it gets cheaper with increasing numbers.

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

tubut

· #2 · Feb 4, 2011

Hi Tadini,

Welcome to AlfaBB.

The owner can check the history of the car in Switzerland via the Swiss Federal Road Office (FEDRO). The forms are available in German, French and Italian only (which is why the relevant web page doesn't show up on the English site). Send me an e-mail via AlfaBB and I'll point you to the appropriate form in one of these languages (I also made an English translation for guidance, if necessary).

My friends at RX Autoworks in North Vancouver, Canada, are currently restoring the Figoni-bodied 6C 1750 GS #121215054 shown in this thread. I'll ask them (and the owner of the car) if the car needs new Memini carbs.

Tadini

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 4, 2011

Hello Tubut,

thank you for your reply. I will send you a private mail, so you can send the forms or a link to me. In fact, I´ve been registered here for quite a while but never posted a thread. The reason is, that I browsed trough some old threads and noticed, that there seem to be quite a number of relatively strange contributors who try to either put something down or enhance the quality or dubious history of some cars. As the internet never forgets something, even if it is wrong information, it is quite a risk to discuss the details of a valuable car in a public forum.
In this special case I hope to get more information as I have already tried the serious people I could think of, like John de Boer (best regards!) and others, but with no bigger results. So, your link to the FEDRO could be most helpful.

Tadini

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 4, 2011

Thank you Tubuk for your help. While I try to find out something over the Swiss FEDRO I would still be thankful if anybody else could help with more information. As far as I was told, this car might nor have been registered in Switzerland. I have spoken to al three known owners, and the first one had bought this car at an auction in Geneva. He was told, that the car probably came from Tchechoslowakia. Prior to the auction it was serviced by Pierre Siebenthal, who had a workshop and a spectacular scrapyard with now priceless racecars and one-offs. Unfortunately, he has passed away some years ago, and also his brother couldn´t help. So, everything from the first 30 years is missing.

iicarJohn

· #5 · Feb 7, 2011

Ar6c121215065

Hello "Tadini",

It is important to acknowledge that Memini was improving (or at least modifying) their design of carburetor (carburatore) for these cars. It probably should be considered fairly important to make the version of "carburetter" (a spelling the English seem to prefer) appropriate to this late 6C1750. An early version might make some owners happy but should not be considered "correct" for a sixth-series engine.

I'll leave it up to you to reveal as much or as little as you care to about what we think we know of this car's history except to reveal that Rob de la Rive Box was in the ownership chain during the 1960's.

Best regards,

John de Boer

Tadini

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 7, 2011

Dear John,

let me first say: Thank you for putting my alter ego in quotation marks....;-). I looked to me as it was common practise here, not to contribute with a real name. Maybe that was nonsense, and now I am logged in as Tadini. For all who do not know me so far: My name is Alfred Bauer, Düsseldorf, Sports and Classics GmbH.

Sorry, I did not quite get the meaning of your reply, maybe down to language problems. I had already asked you about this cars´ history about one year ago, and at least at that time you could not tell me much more than I was able to contribute. Have you found out something new? I personately absolutely do not have a problem if there is something wrong with this car. In contrary, if this is the case, I would be happy to know. So, what was that with Rob de la Rive Box and what is that to say?

Best Regards,

Alfred

iicarJohn

· #7 · Feb 9, 2011 (Edited)

AR6C news & computer woes

Hi Alfred,

I did not know who "Tadini" was until after I wrote the response and then saw another message in another thread that made me think a bit more about it.

Some new information has turned up about AR6C121215065. The information is not all "mine" to share at this point but I will contact you directly to let you know a bit more.

I would have responded sooner but my borrowed computer malfunctioned and I've spent a fair bit of time setting up a new one. Still lots to do before everything is as it should be!

In November I lost a fair bit of data-sorting and labeling work due to a hard drive failure on my own computer. Also some personal files, work-related photos and work notes & records. Fortunately most of the data was backed up and some more was recovered by the third data-recovery business that made an attempt. This was an Acer laptop that began to show some problems after less than one year from new. Each time it misbehaved I was able to take it apart, wriggle a few connections and it would work again as it should. But, I'd already decided it was a laptop that should not travel much. It failed while sitting on a desk where it had been placed for quite a long time. I was told by a data-recovery place that most modern hard drives are not designed and built to last much longer than about two years of normal use. Back up those files, preferably in more than one location!

In the last couple of years, two HP laptops I've worked with have had screen/display failures in different ways. One was an older machine that I bought "used" from a friend and then used quite a lot when the screen lamps seemingly burned out. I still use that computer (with a remote monitor) for scanning photos and documents. I'm not sure what is wrong with the second Hp laptop yet but the lamps still seem to be OK. The screen went blank Sunday about 1/2 hour before an eBay auction was set to conclude. I quickly went to another computer as I was following the auction as high bidder until about two minutes before it closed. Got another quick bid in but it was not enough. C'est la vie! Still, it was too many frustrations in just a few minutes! So, now I have a new laptop and an automatically-scheduled back-up program. Unfortunately, I know that this will put more wear-and-tear on the hard-drive. So, in two years I'll probably be shopping for one or more hard-drives. One for use and one for a newly created redundant back-up location.

Best regards.

John

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gtv2000

· #8 · Feb 11, 2011

John - sorry to hear about your computer crash and data lost. I've experienced both a hard disk crash and a coomputer theft last year. Grrrr...

I would think that the right person to contact for further infos on that car is Mr. Caveng in Geneva, son of a former owner.

Tadini

Discussion Starter · #9 · Feb 15, 2011

I am getting confused - who is this Mr. Caveng, and who´s son is he supposed to be? And how do you know? As I said, I would be most thankful for any kind of help, but how should I get further with such fragmentary information....

Alfred

Zagato_Olaf

· #10 · Feb 15, 2011

Share information to get information

Tadini said:
I am getting confused - who is this Mr. Caveng, and who´s son is he supposed to be? And how do you know? As I said, I would be most thankful for any kind of help, but how should I get further with such fragmentary information....

Alfred

Hello Alfred,

Do I sense some impatience in your last post?
This Bulletin Board is a community of people who dedicate their free time to Alfa Romeo. Information is fragmented although some of us have a database with lots of information on pre- and/or postwar cars or a specific type of Alfa Romeo. And information is shared amongst members. I too have received information from other members which I am not allowed to reveal because it is not 'mine'.

In my opinion, this bulletin board will give you information if you are willing to share information. Posting pictures of the car, what you know of its condition & history and the previous owners, will encourage members to give you pieces of information they have. Sharing information will also increase the change that people remember the car and come up with information that didn't seem relevant to them at the time.

Have a look at this thread and you know what I mean. http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/lim...7335-info-figoni-bodied-6c1750-gs-sought.html
This is just my personal opinion.

Ciao, Olaf

gtv2000

· #11 · Feb 15, 2011 (Edited)

Tadini said:
I am getting confused - who is this Mr. Caveng, and who´s son is he supposed to be? And how do you know? As I said, I would be most thankful for any kind of help, but how should I get further with such fragmentary information....

Alfred

I, as Olaf, feel some discomfort with your last reply.

Is it difficult to guess that the father of Mr. Caveng (son) has to be Mr. Caveng (senior)? I did not intend, nor realize, that I could be cryptic with that name.

Is it me who got confused, or is he in the ownership history of the car? Did you fail, if you don't know him, to google for "caveng alfa" and earn this as first result?

I'm confused as well about what you actually want from us. Like other have stated, I'm not proprietary of some information I got incidentally, and therefore cannot publish it here. I suggested a source, you should be able to decide if you are willing to follow it.

oz3litre

· #12 · Feb 15, 2011

iicarJohn said:
Hi Alfred,

In the last couple of years, two HP laptops I've worked with have had screen/display failures in different ways. One was an older machine that I bought "used" from a friend and then used quite a lot when the screen lamps seemingly burned out. I still use that computer (with a remote monitor) for scanning photos and documents. I'm not sure what is wrong with the second Hp laptop yet but the lamps still seem to be OK. The screen went blank Sunday about 1/2 hour before an eBay auction was set to conclude. I quickly went to another computer as I was following the auction as high bidder until about two minutes before it closed. Got another quick bid in but it was not enough. C'est la vie! Still, it was too many frustrations in just a few minutes! So, now I have a new laptop and an automatically-scheduled back-up program. Unfortunately, I know that this will put more wear-and-tear on the hard-drive. So, in two years I'll probably be shopping for one or more hard-drives. One for use and one for a newly created redundant back-up location.

Best regards.

John

It might be time to get yourself a Mac laptop. They last far longer and can stand a fair bit of knocking around. You can run Windows on it better than a PC. My wife is still using my seven year old Powerbook. What is the use of a laptop that you are afraid to carry around?

iicarJohn

· #13 · Feb 16, 2011

Tadini's Alfa

I think we are dealing with a language issue here. There may be some implications (or lack of them) that are confused by some folks who do not have English as a "first" or truly comfortable language. "Tadini" has shared information in the past and a study is progressing slowly. It would not be unusual if he wished to speed things up. Part of the difficulty in researching this car is that Rob de la Rive Box seems to have owned it and, since we lost him a few years ago, we cannot ask him. A tentative connection has been made between 121215065 and a heavily modified car that came out of Prague in the 1960's to Rob Box. A photo appears in a Dutch-language book and Rob Box's description witholds the chassis number out of respect for the owner's privacy. So, I can only guess that the car is the same. It makes sense. I don't know who owned the car in Prague. It seems that the transaction of the sale to Rob Box was handled by a Czech state agency.

As far as computer issues are concerned, I have a friend who switched to Mac recently hoping to get some enhanced reliability but I have other friends who have had Mac woes as well. The basic message is to develop a systematic back-up routine.

John

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Zagato_Olaf

· #14 · Feb 16, 2011 (Edited)

Title of the Dutch book of Rob de la Rive Box

iicarJohn said:
I think we are dealing with a language issue here. There may be some implications (or lack of them) that are confused by some folks who do not have English as a "first" or truly comfortable language. "Tadini" has shared information in the past and a study is progressing slowly. It would not be unusual if he wished to speed things up. Part of the difficulty in researching this car is that Rob de la Rive Box seems to have owned it and, since we lost him a few years ago, we cannot ask him. A tentative connection has been made between 121215065 and a heavily modified car that came out of Prague in the 1960's to Rob Box. A photo appears in a Dutch-language book and Rob Box's description witholds the chassis number out of respect for the owner's privacy. So, I can only guess that the car is the same. It makes sense. I don't know who owned the car in Prague. It seems that the transaction of the sale to Rob Box was handled by a Czech state agency.

As far as computer issues are concerned, I have a friend who switched to Mac recently hoping to get some enhanced reliability but I have other friends who have had Mac woes as well. The basic message is to develop a systematic back-up routine.

John

Hello John,

Do you know the title of the Dutch book that Rob de la Rive Box wrote? He wrote several as I recall. If needed, I can translate the text in English.
By the way, I use a Toshiba Satellite laptop that I bought in Oktober of 2005 and it is working well! No complaints. I had a computercrash but that was caused by the virusscanner.

Ciao, Olaf

Tadini

Discussion Starter · #15 · Feb 17, 2011

Obviously, I was hitting the wrong note in my last reply. I didn´t mean to sound aggressive, but seemingly these really are the limitations of my knowledge of English language. To really say the truth - if I read my own post again, I still don´t see what exactly was the reason to make other readers upset. Anyway, this was not my intention.

In general, I always try to share information about interesting Alfas which pass through our hands. We do quite a number of Alfa 1900s in our workshop, and I am quite often exchanging thoughts, numbers and pictures with people like Peter Marshall and also John. As 1750s are quite rare, I dont´t come across these as often as I see 1900s.
Nevertheless, I think that a public discussion about a certain car can also be very negative in some cases. Normally, I would prefer to talk to people with a deeper knowledge direct, and then publically present the result, or the pros and cons, but presented in a serious and objective way. The problem with the internet is,that it never forgets or deletes wrong information, so every contribution to a topic stays there forever. So far, I have not found an ideal way to share information with enthusiasts and protect the valuable cars against some of the weirdos who are also populating the web at the same time. If I brouse through older threads, I can seee that this platform also had its problems i.e. with an unfriendly guy from Belgium who tries to re-write history, and there are plenty of these people out there.

So, back to 121215065. If it is likely that this is the car from Prague- in which way was it heavily modified? I still have picture of it before restoration, but these were taken in the 70ies, so this condition may already be the result of a rebody or other modification years before. On my old pictures, it has differently shaped wings, the engine compartment is painted red instead of grey, gearbox is painted bronze and it seems that the car had a horrible wiring. In this condition, it did the Mille four times with two owners.
It would be nice to find that book of Rob Box to compare the pictures. And of course there is still the interesting question of who built the original body.

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Tadini

Discussion Starter · #16 · Apr 14, 2014

Car pictured by Rob de la Rive Rive Box

Just to revive this thread and still hoping that somebody out there might have some additional information.
The suggested connection to the car which was pictured in the rob Box book has obviously turned out to be wrong. I have found the Rob Box book "Darf es ein Ferrari sein?". After trying to find and buy it, I eventually noticed that I already owned a copy and that it had been among all my other books all the time…. The modified car in the book clearly shows a U-shaped chassis profile on the front chassis rails, while our sixth series car features a "boxed" chassis with a closed profile. This is a thing which cannot be mixed up, so the car in the Rob Box book must be from an earlier series.

Tadini

Discussion Starter · #17 · Apr 14, 2014

2

Chassis pictures

Both chassis for comparison. Note difference in the visible frontal part. The chassis pictures of 121215065 were taken when it was stripped for restoration in 1992.
I´d like to apologize for our watermark on the Rob Box picture. It was put on automatically when I scanned it in and I am unable to remove it. The picture is not my own, as I said, but taken from the aforementioned book.

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