[goats]

on auto LS at 195K ish miles. three weeks ago skipped time and tensioner bearing seized up. DId the deal,reset it all, replaced a few misc parts, all was great and car running sweet. I was stoked!

Went to pick up son at school. Sitting at a red light, noticeable drop in smoothness and car has nearly no power at all when accelerating-- and yet again, weird smell. I nurse the car home and put in the garage-- Im thinking it skipped time again - this is the car where we put keys in to lock pulleys to camshafts as tapers were not holding at all. So couple hours work, remove timing covers etc and pulley marks are dead nuts on. Hmmm

So put back together and its running on 5 or 4 cylinders, and sounda and feels like timing is skipped. But it isnt. So today I pull all plugs, etc and find cyl 3 plug is 'too clean' -- and a closer look at the coil shows some cracks, and it smells funny,. SO I replace it thinking 'thats it!!" and put all back together. Same thing , runs real bad and missing. Checked ignition modules, and all is good there. Injectors are clicking like they mean business, where I'm stumped is -- mech vs electrical!

Guess its plenum off AGAIN and compression checks are next.Given this is my Daily driver its a bit frustrating as I don;t have much time to screw around.

any thoughts from our 24 V crew?

 

[Richard2]

I only have Alfa's nothing else. So I have to have an Alfa as a daily driver. To make sure I have a daily driver...I have 3 Alfas. Most of the time at least one is running

 

[SpiralArchitect]

I only have Alfa's nothing else. So I have to have an Alfa as a daily driver. To make sure I have a daily driver...I have 3 Alfas. Most of the time at least one is running

I've only got one so I better fix things fast!
It's that or I've got to borrow the petrol ZX. Some weeks ago none of them was running.

 

[Richard2]

Wed I finished the fuel pump on the red 164S. Today I finished putting the drivers side strut back in the silver 164B after replacing the outer CV boot, and the Berlina runs, but not well. It is usable in a pinch. One of the very rare times I have all 3 operating

I really needed the 164B as it has the trailer hitch. Next weekend I need to go to Silverdale, across Puget Sound from Seattle to pick up a pellet stove, and over the next several weeks, I need to finish moving the greenhouse to our new house in Blaine.

 

[multicam]

Well, I would take a visual and mental trip back over the multiple steps taken when replacing all the "in the way" components back together.

Sounds like a poor connection, intermittant contact or worn out connector - now failing.

Check grounds, fuel starvation, more than one coil failing?

Good luck

 

[goats]

found it

Another bad coil -- that makes 2 occurring within about 100 miles of each other--

Should be good to go tomorrow AM

 

[81gtv6]

Ignition modules? I always swap them to see if the trouble switches banks, good indicator.

 

[goats]

nope twas 2 bad coils

but not at the same time== separated by a few days =-- one on the rear back and one on the front! I checked the ign modules previously

 

[goats]

Spoke too soon

car ran great for a few miles then started missing again, loss of power. Another coil pack gone bad? Can;t diagnose from here I am at work!

ugh!

 

[goats]

update

yep, another coil pack gone bad, same location (cyl #3 under the plenum, of course). Hmmm........... The coil pack appears to have gotten VERY hot, with plastic insulation melting out of it (one can see the blobs of molten plastic on the body of the coil pack). too coincidental for my liking -- was this the source of the 'funn smell' I reported??

So before I threw ANOTHER spare coil pack on (bringing my spares total to 2) I figured I;d better go through the whole magilla. So, I rang out the wires to the coil pack, thru the round connector, to the ignition module. Checked for any shorts or opens and found none. What could make the coil run so hot it melts? Shorted spark plug perhaps-- so I took the plug out and checked it, seems OK but I had a new one so I replaced it. Ignition module shorting out intermittently? I replaced the ign module with a spare I had too just for good measure. The last thing in the circuit (assuming no wiring issues) is the ECU-- if the ECU holds the amplifier ON rather than pulsing it , the ign module will just pass the current over to the plug and likely overheat. Possible but not too likely I would not think.

So I put it all back together with spare ign module, new spark plug (0.025"), cleaned everything up, and plenum back on, etc etc. So far (only one morning drive) so good. Maybe the ign module shorting out when it got hot on that one channel? I hate intermittents!

 

[Allan]

This actually sounds a little like the issue I had with my Q4. It started running badly and unplugging to one cylinder (don't remember which one)didn't change anything. This developed into smoke at a later point, with ignition OFF, so battery was disconneted. It turned out to be broken insulation between wires in the wireloom from ECU to engine. See thread here

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/100434-q4-ignition-problem.html

Hope you find the cure and that it's a simple fix!

PS: Got the Alfa back yesterday after experiencing a fuel smell and smoke behind the engine - fuel pipes were close to touching exhaust, but got away with it and it's running great again!

 

[goats]

Update --CLosed?

So far so good, car is back to normal (even with the occasiona NO STARTS) but running just fine-- I replaced one igniiton module (rear side where the coil burned up) with a spare I had laying about.

2 weeks in and lets pray for the best!

 

[v6junky]

Just a thought. An electrical arc creates heat that could damage the coil pack. Damaged coil pack could cause a surge in the electrics and work its way back causing the rest of the problems (damaged cable, damaged module, etc.). With some luck it was the coil pack that was bad or had a loose connection with the spark plug.

 

[goats]

Spoke too soon !! Whats going on?

OK car started running rough AGAIN. Missing on one or 2 cylinders. I can hear a little crackle in the rear so plenum off AGAIN (this is the 8th time in 2 months IIRC-- BTW I can get that bad sucker off in 20 minutes!! -- 30 min on a hot engine!) So I check everything; all looks good, and swap in new coils (my last of my last) on all rear cylinders; and steal fronts out of the 5 speed (so I know they are good). Check all plugs and gaps, all looks good. Put everything back together and same misfire at idle (quite bad misfire) and runs like junk. Ugh! Replace ign modules again! Same thing. No tramp air leaks that I can tell (spraying brake cleaner everywhere, no change in beat).

What is it? Fuel pressure was good last week (or was it 2 weeks ago) at 44; fuel, air and spark makes the engine go round.IS it time for compression and leakdown tests? 193 K on this car----

Chime in with ideas! I guess I could replace the ECU easily enough and see if that helps>>>????? UGH!

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Are we still having fun? Please don't jinx Myron's 24v LS as I have not had to work on it in over 6 months. Granted he only drives it about once a month now.

 

[multicam]

Went to pick up son at school. Sitting at a red light, noticeable drop in smoothness and car has nearly no power at all when accelerating-- and yet again, weird smell.

Weird smell could be a good cue. Incomplete combustion of not enought fuel?

So c ould you have intermittant fuel delivery from the fuel tank. A fuel hose that is partially occluded when the tank level changes??
190K on this auto LS. Has the fuel pump / submersible fuel hose been looked at.

F

 

[goats]

yeah it was

I replaced all in-tank hoses about 40K miles ago --

And I did check fuel pressure about a week ago, 44 psi on the nose and stays there after shut down. I am thinking I might try a fuel flow test (described in the manual) to see if the flow rate is OK --

this is a very weird problem that has the chump stumped!

 

[Alfisto Steve]

I replaced all in-tank hoses about 40K miles ago --

And I did check fuel pressure about a week ago, 44 psi on the nose and stays there after shut down. I am thinking I might try a fuel flow test (described in the manual) to see if the flow rate is OK --

this is a very weird problem that has the chump stumped!

Yes you may have A FUEL FLOW PROBLEM. Beer bottle 3/4 full in 15 seconds about 8 oz is what I get. Of course I used 8 oz Smucker's jelly jar as I drink beer from cans myself.

 

[goats]

prolly not fuel flow

jumpered the fp relay and ran the gas into a BECKS bottle -- 3/4 full in 8 seconds! Pressure when deadheaded , FP jumpered but no vaccum to support FP regulator- about 51 psi. when jumper pulled, right to 44 psi and stays there.

ugh well I guess that means I dont have to TANK DIVE at least!

Fuel Air Spark -- got Fuel for sure, pretty sure we got air since the miss exists both with the AFM out of the circuit (idle) and at high revs - All injectors are happily clicking away, not sure if maybe one is plugged a little bit? (doubt it but maybe??) -- I could pull the injectors and step thru them one at a time with the Marelli tester, when under pressure? Pull fuel rails, injectors, and blow em out with compressed air to see if theres some junk in there???

Spark - replaced coils, etc -- wiring or ECU? I guess I start ringing out the big round connector to ECU comb next; maybe go all the way from ECU comb to coil connectors? -- or should I go for compression/leakdown test next (dreading a head gasket issue!!!)

ideas???

 

[AlexGS]

Sounds horrible - you have my sympathy. I just hate those situations where you fix things and it makes no difference.

I'm a little confused - all those ignition problems and you now suspect a fuel problem? Seems like so many things happening at once. Must have been a cause of the ignition failures - wrong plug heat range?

Do I remember a Del fix being Mylar insulating sheet for the coil packs (or was that you) - have you been down this road lately? Is it possible that an insulation failure is overloading an ignition module?

I had a great deal of trouble recently curing air leaks at the chrome pipe flanges (on a 12v rather than 24v). I think, though, that just causes a high idle speed rather than faults on individual cylinders, since ultimately the plenum chamber is shared. Ditto for any other air leak I reckon.

I haven't worked on a 24V so I don't have anything useful to contribute apart from, again, my sympathies.

-Alex