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Discussion Starter #1
I drive my 3 litre Potenziata every day and love it. It is my third 3 litre 75, so I am used to driving these wonderful cars. I was reminded however of how different they are from other cars when I went with my son as he drove my 1988 3 litre for the first time yesterday. We have finally got it back on the road after it has been sitting in the garage for two years gathering dust. It is going to be his car to use from now on. The only manual cars he has driven until now were his driving instructor's Toyota Corolla and our Volvo 480 Turbo which is now off the road due to being vandalised by a drunken idiot. It was interesting to see my son's reaction to driving the 75. He was amazed at how lively and responsive it is in every way when compared to the other cars. I think he now fully realises how lucky he is to have one to drive. When you drive 75s regularly you tend to forget that most other cars are sort of soft and fuzzy in comparison. Everything happens quickly and precisely in a 75. They might be getting old these days but they are still an exceptional car. It would be entertaining to put a Toyota Camry driver in a 75, but it would probably scare the poor bugger to death.
 

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.... When you drive 75s regularly you tend to forget that most other cars are sort of soft and fuzzy in comparison. Everything happens quickly and precisely in a 75. They might be getting old these days but they are still an exceptional car. It would be entertaining to put a Toyota Camry driver in a 75, but it would probably scare the poor bugger to death.
This feedback you speak of, something we appreciate because it tells us what the car is doing, is just a collection of vibrations, noise and annoyance to a Camry driver.

Even some of my friends who claim to be 'performance car' drivers prefer to have less feedback than what I consider to be adequate.

Yes, the 75 is fun to drive precisely because it has IMO quality feedback.

Enjoy in good health!
 

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And for fun change the timing belt on the camry and the alfa.
15Min on the alfa and and one day for the camry or 2 to 3 days if it the first time and you have to weld up a flywheel holder cut the bracket with a die grinder to take off the cover for the flywheel and use a super long cheatbar hoping you do not snap the crank to undo the front pulley nut. guessing something like 5000-10000 lbs to break lose.
I was lifting the front off the car off the jack stands with a 6ft bar!! The spark plugs were the same way even with the 2 ft long wrench the came out super hard.
I think Toyoda dips the whole block in superglue after it is put together at the factory.
and anything to come off for the first time is a major pain.

Now if the alfa had the camery control for the heater/AC that is nice set the temp and hit auto. The alfa with the heater seems to ether have fire coming out the vents or cold air. it seem impossible to get say just warm air.

also timing belts slips for me:
cammery +1
alfa's 0 (knock on wood)
 

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Everything happens quickly and precisely in a 75.
Does that include the soggy, long throw gear change, slow rate steering, overly soft front suspension with lethargic turn in and excess understeer and the piss weak brakes?

It would be entertaining to put a Toyota Camry driver in a 75, but it would probably scare the poor bugger to death.
I think it would be interesting to put you in my MR2, that'd probably scare you to death :p.
 

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Does that include the soggy, long throw gear change, slow rate steering, overly soft front suspension with lethargic turn in and excess understeer and the piss weak brakes?
Christ, Duk...if that's how you describe your 75 methinks it's in need of some maintenance or something.
 

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Christ, Duk...if that's how you describe your 75 methinks it's in need of some maintenance or something.
There is a degree of exaggeration after reading Oz's exaggerated comments, that's how I describe it after comparison.

Besides, my 75 is modified for much improved front end grip and front brakes are upgraded. When I get off my backside, I'll be able to enjoy the additional modifications that will make even more improvements to handling, performance, gear change, braking, chassis balance and rigidity.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have no idea why Duk owns a 75. His is nothing like any of mine. He should stick to Toyotas.
 

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I already told you why I own 1, because I can ;).

Let me ask you something Oz, you've obviously been into Alfa's for quite a while. How much did a brand new 75 Potenziata cost in 1990-1992?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Let me ask you something Oz, you've obviously been into Alfa's for quite a while. How much did a brand new 75 Potenziata cost in 1990-1992?
About $42,000 I believe, but what has that got to do with this discussion? By the way, the suspension on the red 75 that my son is now driving was set up by Benincas, with their springs, Koni yellows, poly bushes etc. My Potenziata has stock suspension at present and is certainly not soggy as yours seems to have been.
 

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About $42,000 I believe, but what has that got to do with this discussion?
And what was the average Australian income during the recession we had to have?
How much did a 1990-92 Camry cost? How much of a 'driving' pretense did the Camry have versus the Alfa?


By the way, the suspension on the red 75 that my son is now driving was set up by Benincas, with their springs, Koni yellows, poly bushes etc. My Potenziata has stock suspension at present and is certainly not soggy as yours seems to have been.
Everything in life relative. Compared to a small mid engined car and a modified Nissan Silvia, a standard Alfa is very much an unresponsive, lethargic handler in standard trim. My car came to me with Koni shocks but I added PU bushes pretty much everywhere to replace worn out original ones, except the main Dedion bush. It wasn't until I added Pace Engineering long shank top ball joints and a 105lb/in spring over the front shocks that I felt it was getting there.
 

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IF my 87 QV could cook me eggs i would marry it....nuff said.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
a standard Alfa is very much an unresponsive, lethargic handler in standard trim. [/QUOTE]

Bulls..t! I get a bit tired of the fact that every time I praise 75s you have to try and prove that I am misguided and that only you really know what constitutes a good car.
 

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a standard Alfa is very much an unresponsive, lethargic handler in standard trim.
Bulls..t! I get a bit tired of the fact that every time I praise 75s you have to try and prove that I am misguided and that only you really know what constitutes a good car.[/QUOTE]

You've only quoted a small part of my previous comment. That's not fair to me or you.

You get tired of me providing an alternative opinion?
Would you much prefer to have everybody stand around (metaphorically speaking), slapping each other on the back and telling each other how incredibly wonderful our Alfa Romeo's are?

You're talking like you want to take on the world but you only want to compare your car to some of the cheapest, most boring and mundane machinery. If somebody else comes along with some other experiences, and put their opinion out there, you don't like it.
What you have to remember is that there are people who enjoy cars and there are people who enjoy brands. The end result is pretty much what is happening here.

Oz, I'll make you an offer, you can drive my MR2 (once I've installed and tuned the new aftermarket computer and completed the brake upgrades) just for your own experience. It doesn't matter if you like it or loath it, it'll help provide you with the contrast that I have experienced.
 

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Bulls..t! I get a bit tired of the fact that every time I praise 75s you have to try and prove that I am misguided and that only you really know what constitutes a good car.
Some day you may see the light too, my friend :p ;) Until then I'm afraid you will live, uh drive your 75, in darkness with all the other lost souls :D :) ;)

Now, to start the path to salvation you need to sing "I love M R Twos" to the tune of "I love rock and roll"
every evening for 1 hour. Good luck! I already tried but failed miserably as I got nausea and vomited. May you have a stronger stomach :p :D ;)

All said in humor, of course. No offense meant to anyone.

Jes
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Would you much prefer to have everybody stand around (metaphorically speaking), slapping each other on the back and telling each other how incredibly wonderful our Alfa Romeo's are?
I started this thread to share my pleasure at my son's reaction to driving the 75 and my own pleasure in owning and driving these cars, but you found it necessary to rain on my parade for some reason. I am not a one eyed brand freak and am fully aware of the fact that the perfect car never has been, or ever will be, made. I have never said that 75s are perfect.
 

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There is something special about a Milano/75 or we wouldn't expend so much effort in keeping them up, let alone tuning them.

Back to apples vs apples. In '91 when I got my Verde, I considered and drove the E30 M3, and the Mercedes 2.3 Cosworth. The M3 handled nicely but made absolutely no power down low and sounded like ****e. The Merc was well screwed together, but lacked power and felt a bit vague. Tried the Ford SHO, and despite the lovely Yamaha engine, the chassis was impossibly floaty. Later while owning the Verde, I also had a MK II VW Jetta GLi 16v. A fine little car, but stock to stock, dynamically it ran out of tricks just as the Verde was getting going. Sometimes we forget what the automotive landscape was like back then.

In the intervening 279,000 miles of driving my Verde all over North America, on roads and race tracks, it's become my companion. Every nuance specific to that car, gives it a character uniquely it's own. Some cars make even inept drivers look good, but Alfas have never done that. My Verde taught me how to manage weight transfer so that whenever I drive people around (in any car), they remark how smoothly I drive. The Alfa gets credit for that.

Today a VW R32 (the nearest thing to an Alfa we can get), does most of my town duty, reserving the Verde for special days. Auto enthusiasts light up when they see the "Arrgh", and I do enjoy the car very much. But when I pull out the Verde and go for a drive, that fine car is virtually forgotten. The experience is fully immersive. In other cars you issue commands via the controls. In the Alfa you must both submit to the flaws and work around them until you are part of the machine. Cajole, coerce, conspire. For sheer mechanical simpatico in 4 door format, it's hard to beat.

It says something that when we considered buying a Ferrari, the thing that pushed us over the edge to get an F355 was that when we drove it, it felt like a low loud Milano with everything dialled to 11. All it took was a spin around the block and I felt like I had always driven one. So utterly familiar in feedback it was uncanny. When we tell people we bought a Ferrari because it reminded us of an Alfa, they look at us strangely, but it's God's honest truth. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks Verdegrrl. Your comments are well informed and sum up the virtues of 3 litre 75s beautifully. It is a great read and I feel vindicated. I love the bit about why you bought an F355. Let us also not forget that in Italy 75s were a four door family car.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
On the subject of the $42,000 price of a 75 in Australia in 1990, it was due to the high import duty on foreign cars back then. A bog standard Golf was about the same price from memory. Fortunately European cars are much more affordable these days.
 

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The point is that Alfa Romeos (at least the ‘old’ ones…) are so special and involving that the brain is switched off and the heart rules! So, it’s difficult to see things ‘objectively’ with pros and cons, but only pros.
I understand both those who criticize and those who emphasize. They all may be right!
How many ‘fights’ I have faced with people speaking ill of Alfas. But I’ve understood that many times this is due to envy, or ignorance – how many commonplaces! :mad: - other times it’s because they’ve never driven them! As soon as they have the possibility to test them, they often change their minds and sometimes… become alfisti :D
But IMO it’s good that AR divides so strongly people’s opinion. If not, that would mean AR is like an anonymous, cold, grey, soul-less home appliance. Like some cars nowadays sadly are…
Driving a 75, whether v6 or turbo – the latter is my case - often means a lot.
Every trip, even short, is an exhilarating experience that can do so much! We can find a smile after a hard working week, compete against others - or ourselves ;) - or just go back to teenage for a while…
Anyhow, we’re lucky to try this experience whenever we want! :)
Ciao
 

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My son had to make do with my 2.5. It's the only car he has ever driven, and he still has a couple of years to go until he legaly drive it. But he will always be able to say "the first car I ever drove was an Alfa Romeo"
 
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