Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Can anyone tell me the best way to replace the outer rubber boot on a '91 164.
I think it is the L but not sure. I have been doing the water pump and found the boot split.
Robbo:confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,765 Posts
Can anyone tell me the best way to replace the outer rubber boot on a '91 164.
I think it is the L but not sure. I have been doing the water pump and found the boot split.
Robbo:confused:
I did this job a few weeks back. Since the outer CV joint did NOT want to part from the driveshaft, I figured out an easy, but slow, way.

I bought a set of 3/8" drive Allen 'keys' (socket-set style). This is to unbolt the inner CV joint. Spend a few minutes digging the dirt out of the hex-socket-head bolts first... time well-spent, I promise. If you round one off, you are stuffed...

I used the car's transmission to hold the driveshaft (i.e. put it in gear with the right wheel raised and removed), then undid the CV bolts in pairs (you can only get to two easily at a time). The design of the CV joint prevents the nuts on the back from rotating, so you don't need a spanner. With the bolt fully removed, the nut drops off.

Separate the tie-rod-end balljoint. Unbolt the three 13mm nuts holding the bottom balljoint to the control arm. Unbolt the strut. You may like to unbolt the anti-roll bar link to give more movement.

Carefully stand the hub/disc/brake assembly on the removed wheel (or similar) to avoid straining the brake hose. The driveshaft will of course be pointing upwards (pic 1). The inner CV joint has an easily-accessed external circlip. I cut the boot clamp at the small end of the inner boot, and slid the joint off the shaft complete with boot.

I then decided to take apart the inner CV joint (pic 2), to clean and re-grease it - I'm sure that facecloth will be fine in the wash - note that the spacing of the ball-grooves should NOT match up between the centre part and the outer part. I assembled it with the grooves lining up (by mistake) and it bound up solid. It needs to be free to 'plunge'.

The outer CV joint, I wiped slightly clean and re-greased (it appeared to have more recent grease in it already - original grease is a green-ish colour, new grease is grey).

Pic 3 shows the easy access to replace anti-roll bar link bushes (if needed) while you are there - mine were shot. I used shock-absorber generic polyurethane replacements! Incidentally, doing the other side was easier while the RH side control arm was free to move.

Pic 4 shows the fitting of the CV boot. After several times in the past when cable ties have caught on things, worked loose, or just slipped off, I now use only the correct metal band clamps. The 'special tool' is not very special and you could easily make do with pliers (the band is simply folded back and the retaining ears tapped over).

Re-assembly is a reversal of removal, except that you get to swear in different places.

Tightening the CV Allen bolts one pair at a time is a slow and painstaking task (I did it in two passes) - gearbox in neutral, turn, gearbox in gear, tighten, repeat six times... Getting the lower balljoint back onto the control arm also requires care not to trap the rubber boot.

---
I came in for a great deal of criticism from my mechanic friends when I told them about this approach - they said "did it take you all day?" Note that there was no need to undo the large (and very tight) hub nut, no need to un-seat the wheel beariings, didn't have to disassemble the brakes, and I know that both CVs are well-greased with boots in great condition. And, the anti-roll bar link got fixed. Most importantly, it wasn't necessary to slog the hell out of the outer CV to try and get the 'jump ring' inside to release its hold on the driveshaft :)

Best of luck!
-Alex
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for that Alex, I will get to it when the grandaughter gives me some spare time.
I am still trying to work out what is the most contrary vehicle, the 164 or the old '58 Rover 90 I have.
Robbo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,765 Posts
Thanks for that Alex, I will get to it when the grandaughter gives me some spare time.
I am still trying to work out what is the most contrary vehicle, the 164 or the old '58 Rover 90 I have.
Robbo
:)
Well personally, I'd go for the 164, because complexity doesn't necessarily put me off - RUST and Cellulose Paint does ;)

Just to give the other side of the story, i.e. the other (normal) way to replace the CV joint boot, here it is.

(This is not the way I did mine, obviously, but I have done this in the past on smaller FWD cars like my Uno.)

1. Remove hub nut, probably done up to at least 200Nm for the 164. Maybe use tent pole as breaker-bar extension and have friend stand on brake pedal. This step could be five minutes or a couple of hours, depending on how many breaker-bars break, or whether you have to drive to Repco for a special large socket. Sorry I can't remember what size...

2. Unbolt strut. May need to unbolt brake caliper if brake hose short.

3. Should be just enough room to slide outer CV joint out of hub with steering knuckle swivelled outward and steering full right-lock

4. Cut off outer CV boot clips and slide boot back along driveshaft.

5. Use heavy mallet to knock CV joint off driveshaft, perhaps hitting the centre part of the joint (small), or maybe the outer part, who knows. :eek: I hate this sort of violence (even against hardened steel - it gets burred or splinters), so I held onto brake disc and tried to use hub assembly (with CV put back in) as 'slide hammer' - that didn't work, so don't bother trying ;)

5b. Make sure you have removed CV from hub before trying to knock-off with mallet. Otherwise you are trying to accelerate the whole mass of the hub + brake disc etc. when you hit the joint. I remember one similar job (Lancia Thema) where I tried this (to save the trouble of undoing hub nut). It didn't work, so I decided to reassemble and remove hub nut, removed CV from hub, and then it popped off the driveshaft on the first hit. Newton's law: impact force is proportional to mass (the hammer) and (de)acceleration. That explains the use of a heavy hammer, and hitting something with no 'give' in it so that acceleration is as instant as possible, but I can't explain the logic of lightening the thing that's getting hit... I find if you are trying to transfer momentum to a heavy object, you get less force. The lighter the item you're hitting, the more force it gets.*

6. Assuming step 5. worked, dismantle and clean CV joint, repack with grease and fit new boot. Make sure snap ring evenly in driveshaft groove and knock CV joint back onto driveshaft.

7. Replace other removed parts and marvel at the way this approach only took an hour and a half compared with four hours for the other approach :)

However (as you can guess) I've had a lot of grief getting CVs off driveshafts and then back on again, so these days I prefer not to try, unless the circlip is easily accessible as it is for the inner CV.

Cheers,
-Alex

*EDIT: OK, I'll have another go. Conservation of Momentum applies (for the first collision of hammer-to-CV joint, both hard materials, no deformation so - confusingly - an elastic collision because momentum and energy are conserved). The hammer has a certain mass and velocity, and therefore a certain momentum. If the CV is still bolted into the hub (+bearings+disc+caliper+delicate ABS sensor etc.) then the velocity of this large mass will be a lot less than that of the hammer. Therefore, in the second effective collision of the CV joint against the snap ring (a more inelastic collision), since kinetic energy is 1/2m*v-squared, this decreased velocity results in very much less energy to compress the spring-tension of the snap ring, and furthermore, the 'give' in the snap ring lengthens the 'time' of this second collision and takes up some of the kinetic energy, and so that reduces the impulse force, and then there's static vs. sliding friction, and really there's lots of things to consider but I am happy enough with the first conservation-of-momentum argument - the bit that says that the heavier the item you are hitting, the less velocity you will impart. Of course, you didn't want to know any of this, but I was concerned. :eek:

I preferred leaving the outer CV joint on the driveshaft. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks again Alex, I think the first way looks the way to go:rolleyes:, but now I'm off for another babysitting day.:)
I have CV joints to do on a Corolla too so will study the second method closely.
Cheers from the Old Fella in Melbourne.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,822 Posts
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top