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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How can I properly fix this door gap issue? As you can see from the photos the gap at the bottom rear is out about 3/8 inch but the rest of the gaps around the door look very good. :confused::confused::confused:
 

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You need to replace the hinge pins, this is the same issue I have with my Super. In the third picture, the gap at the top of the door appears larger than the bottom, if this is the case it goes a long way to explaining the gap at the lower rear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Gifford. Hinge pins. Hmmmm. Will you please explain how this is done? Hopefully it is something I (read: inexperienced hack) can do on my own??? Here are some more photos of the hinges and the gap in the third photo above. Maybe it was the camera angle but the gap doesn't look that bad to me.
 

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Door gaps must be considered in 3 dimensions. If your door is flush with the body along its front seam, flush at the top rear, and sticking out at the bottom rear, then the problem is either a twisted door or a door seal that protrudes too far out at the back/rear. No amount of adjusting/shimming the hinges is going to fix that.

Note that the top of your striker looks a little mashed in this photo. You might need to adjust it downward. I check this by putting a piece of masking tape on the striker, and seeing if the plate on the door tears it off - if it does, more clearance is needed.


Hinge pins. Hmmmm. Will you please explain how this is done? Hopefully it is something I (read: inexperienced hack) can do on my own???
Well, the glib answer is: remove your hinge, press out the old worn pin, press in a new pin, reinstall the hinge. Worn hinges usually give the symptom of wobbly doors - can you feel play when you lift the rear of the door? Do your doors sag? Those are the usual signs of worn hinges.
 

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Check the door hinge bushing or pin wear as Jay states. Badly worn hinge bushings look like this.


Hinge Hardware accessory

You'll need to re-bush the hinges with a hinge bushing kit (available from the usual suppliers). One word of caution when doing this...if during your attempts to remove the pin (using the punch and hammer technique)....you find that the pin does not budge at all, do not attempt to use a larger hammer or more force. You may end up breaking the hinge.....AMHIK. Instead, use your dremmel tool with the thin oxide cut-off wheel and cut through the pins at 2 locations where there are the gaps between the hinge halves. This should then make it safer to support the hinge on the opposite side to the which you're hammering the pin with your punch.

Auto part
 

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OTOH....If you find that the door hinges are not worn, check to see if the door seal is the culprit. Partially (or fully) remove the seal from door opening and check the door protrusion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Door gaps must be considered in 3 dimensions. If your door is flush with the body along its front seam, flush at the top rear, and sticking out at the bottom rear, then the problem is either a twisted door or a door seal that protrudes too far out at the back/rear. No amount of adjusting/shimming the hinges is going to fix that.

Note that the top of your striker looks a little mashed in this photo. You might need to adjust it downward. I check this by putting a piece of masking tape on the striker, and seeing if the plate on the door tears it off - if it does, more clearance is needed.




Well, the glib answer is: remove your hinge, press out the old worn pin, press in a new pin, reinstall the hinge. Worn hinges usually give the symptom of wobbly doors - can you feel play when you lift the rear of the door? Do your doors sag? Those are the usual signs of worn hinges.
Thank you so much Jay. I will try the masking tape trick on the striker and adjust as necessary (adjust the striker or the door plate which is better?). I just went and lifted the rear of the door up and down and felt no play at all.

The car was thoroughly restored about 12 years ago. I'm sure new door seals were installed at that time (judging by the soft fresh looking seals and still tacky adhesive). I looked at the bottom corner of the seals (behind where the door is protruding) and could see no obvious bunching or distortions. FYI... both the driver and passenger doors have the same issue (worse on driver's side). I'm starting to think it may be the seals.

1750GT: I will try your test on the door seals to see if that isolates/resolves the problem. If so... what next? OEM seals??? I know "Pathung" is working on new ones but apparently not quite ready yet. Thanks for the help!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Do the doors close easily? If so I wouldn't think the seals are the problem.
I wouldn't say "easily". The doors definitely require a solid (but not excessive) shove (slam). If not, they usually need a second try.
 

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True, you should check your hinges for play, but the easiest check is to open the door and attempted to lift it. Any play will be obvious.
A sagging door will also wear the top of the striker as the trailing edge of the door is too low.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
True, you should check your hinges for play, but the easiest check is to open the door and attempted to lift it. Any play will be obvious.
A sagging door will also wear the top of the striker as the trailing edge of the door is too low.
As previously mentioned, I did check for play (by opening the door and attempting to lift it) and felt none at all. However, the top of the striker plate is slightly damaged. I will check this with tape to see if it is a current condition or if the damage is from past wear.
 

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I will try the masking tape trick on the striker and adjust as necessary (adjust the striker or the door plate which is better?)
I usually start with the plate on the body - its three mounting bolts allow for quite a bit of movement. Does the latch on the door allow for adjustment? I'm not sure it does.

I'm starting to think it may be the seals.

1750GT: I will try your test on the door seals to see if that isolates/resolves the problem. If so... what next? OEM seals??? I know "Pathung" is working on new ones but apparently not quite ready yet. Thanks for the help!
Yup, door seals are the bane of GT owners' existence. If you car was restored 12 years ago, the seals may have hardened with time and/or were sourced before GT owners became aware of the dimensional issues with some repro parts.

Not for the faint of heart but I've seen experienced body men grab that very corner and bend the crap out of it.
Yup, that's what my bodyman did on my Sprint. Years of slamming the door on ill-fitting seals had warped the door so that the lower/rear corner protruded outward.
 

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I just went through the same experience a few weeks ago refitting the doors to my '69 GTV. I'm sure the pros must have better way of doing it, bu my solution involved a combination of loosening and repositioning the hinges and loosening and repositioning the striker plate until I got it right. Ultimately, I found that my biggest problem was with the striker plate. My car needed that plate positioned as far toward the interior of the car as I could get it. Frankly, it surprised me how much difference the positioning of that plate made to the alignment of the door, and in ways I would not have expected. The whole process took me a few hours at least. And, I came away with a horror story to pass on: One of the combinations resulted in the front edge of the door being too close to the back edge of the front fender and I ended up with a chip in my new paint. So, watch very closely as you open and close the door after each adjustment.

Good luck. Tim
 

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I have done a lot of research and was all set to reproduce these seals in my factory and then I had to close the factory... :mad: I bought seals from every supplier and even had an unused Alfa spare and an original seal from an unmolested GTV. My conclusion: There are no acceptable seals made in the universe today. Even the Alfa NOS part was too bulky. The original Alfa seals (the ones that were installed at the factory) are a much more delicate affair with very thin sidewalls (you won't know this unless you section them). As the years went by I'm guessing that the makers of these parts or subsequent suppliers cheated and fattened it up to make it easier to produce.

Jay is correct too that they will take a set and if yours have been on for 12 years more than likely that is the case. But I have had to slam my doors so hard that the glass has come off the track with the new seals.

Back to your situation. It doesn't sound like a hinge issue. The best way to adjust your doors is to (gulp) remove the seal altogether. Without the seal you would then align the door (which would require adjusting the hinges and tweaking the door) until the trailing edge of the door is just inside the plane of the body. Then, with seal installed the door should close flush.

Honestly, this is one of those technique areas that I would gladly pay someone to do. As Tim mentioned above - chipping the paint is very easy to do...
 

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If there is no play in the hinges then it must have twisted. Do as advised, remove the rubber seals, check the latch is not catching on the top face of the plate and then with a block of timber positioned at sill height and preventing the door from closing, push really hard on the bottom corner.
This method is shown in the Giulietta Workshop Manual. With some effort you should be able to twist the door back into shape and not damage the paintwork.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
And, I came away with a horror story to pass on: One of the combinations resulted in the front edge of the door being too close to the back edge of the front fender and I ended up with a chip in my new paint. So, watch very closely as you open and close the door after each adjustment. Good luck. Tim
Thanks for the heads up. I see evidence of this having happened to my car in the past :(.

I have done a lot of research and was all set to reproduce these seals in my factory and then I had to close the factory... :mad: I bought seals from every supplier and even had an unused Alfa spare and an original seal from an unmolested GTV. My conclusion: There are no acceptable seals made in the universe today. Even the Alfa NOS part was too bulky. The original Alfa seals (the ones that were installed at the factory) are a much more delicate affair with very thin sidewalls (you won't know this unless you section them). As the years went by I'm guessing that the makers of these parts or subsequent suppliers cheated and fattened it up to make it easier to produce.

Jay is correct too that they will take a set and if yours have been on for 12 years more than likely that is the case. But I have had to slam my doors so hard that the glass has come off the track with the new seals.

Back to your situation. It doesn't sound like a hinge issue. The best way to adjust your doors is to (gulp) remove the seal altogether. Without the seal you would then align the door (which would require adjusting the hinges and tweaking the door) until the trailing edge of the door is just inside the plane of the body. Then, with seal installed the door should close flush.

Honestly, this is one of those technique areas that I would gladly pay someone to do. As Tim mentioned above - chipping the paint is very easy to do...
Thanks for all that good info. In another current thread of the same nature in the "Sedans" forum, Roland (GiuliaBianca) mentions the following:

It is also a matter of wich quality repro seals you use, I always use Cicognani seals and had never any problems with it, they produce all seals themselves and have a very big variety of seals

Cicognani S.r.l - Guarnizioni per auto d'epoca - Home



Roland is quite experienced (understatement). Have you tried these seals from Cicognani for a GTV?

Regarding "gladly paying someone to do it"... who's "da man"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This method is shown in the Giulietta Workshop Manual. With some effort you should be able to twist the door back into shape and not damage the paintwork.
Thank you Stuart. If I need to employ this method, does anyone have copy or a link to where this might be posted?
 

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Page 239, fig 31.....but most if not all panelbeaters will know how to do this.
 

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Here's a shot of twisting a Bronco door that has too much gap at the top. Yours would be the same idea but locating the block (or rags as is this photo) at the top of the door and pushing on the bottom.

Hint: don't wrap your fingers around the edge of the door like this guy. If the block slips out, you're in for a bad day.

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks Brad :). I also assume I'd locate the block/rags behind the door handle not the top of the window frame. Hope one of the other "fixes" works... this will be a last resort.
 
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