Alfa Romeo Forums banner

101 - 120 of 141 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
Hi sbarham. Sorry for the late reply. Like you said use the factory marks on the crank pulley. Then mark all the cam pulleys. I use a plastic wedge to hold the cams in place. You need to modify the tool a little. I’ll try and post a picture in a sec. The wedge is removed before you tension the belt.
You need to have the belt really tight around everything before it will go on the crank pulley. It’s a very tight fit to the point you think it’s wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
Cam timing

This is not the exact tool but something like this. I like the plastic because you can wedge it in hard without fear of damaging the sprockets. Google cam locking tools.
I think of all the t belt service I do. From a hi ace to a Ferrari. The 24v Alfa is the hardest. Always I find hard to remove crankshaft pulley nuts. Idle bearing bolts won’t undo. Water pump bolts break. And people glue the bypass pipe into the water pump.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
I have removed my covers and installed my camlocks.....I am mulling whether to bust a taper or muscle the belt on without doing this and see proponents of both. Which pulley should I muscle the belt over if I don't bust a taper or two? Any advice re tools or prodedure? Can proper belt tensioning be done without busting tapers? I have the belt tensioning weighted special tool but don't have a cam pulley special tool...so a wrench with a piece of wood or similar is what I assume can be used to brace the cam when breaking the taper if I go there. Thanks in advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,354 Posts
Tensioning and timing are completely separated. When you put the cam locks on, was the old belt in place and tensioned?

I have R/R belt many times without breaking the taper — but sometimes it ends up being 1/4-3/8 tooth offset from ideal on usually one pulley only. Then, it’s a decision for me. Personally, if it’s within 3/8 tooth or so I install the belt, without breaking the taper, tension it, and see how it ends up. If it’s a small offset, I’m typically willing to live with the performance sacrifice vs the risk of taper continuous slips. But that’s me, having suffered from taper slip to the point where I keyed the pulley to cam.

It’s a judgement call really. Live with minor offset in cam timing vs risk of cam slipping on shaft.

That said, on my cars, once I “get it right” on cam timing, belt-to-belt variability has been < 1/4 tooth every time and sometimes it’s dead on
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
yes belt was tensioned ...car ran great...camlocks fit ...still I think left bank (by false firewall) sprockets look out half tooth or so...not sure if intake or exhaust is out.
It is possible to still rotate cams a bit with camlocks on. Wondering which pulley you muscle belt over if you don't break tapers?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,354 Posts
You DO NOT muscle belt on and never with a tool!! What I do is to work anti clockwise starting from crank. With tensioner pinned, and tensioner pulley at loosest put the belt on— with any luck it’s super tight heading up to front exhaust cam, then barely makes it on-tooth to front intake cam. Around center idler then onto rear intake— and then over exhaust cam coming down to tensioner. You want all the slack at the leg between rear ex cam and tensioner...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,354 Posts
The idea being you want it as tight as possible — and soapy water can help slip it on as needed— but only by hand. Absolutely no tools to pry it on...try to keep all the slack on the left side between rear ex cam and tensioner
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,354 Posts
Yes you can roll off tdc, at the end of the day all that matters is timing correct— sometimes you roll anti clockwise on crank at first to get front bank on, then correct it before rear bank etc. how you get to timing— as long as you don’t crash a valve during the process — doesn’t matter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
272 Posts
I cannot roll off of TDC because the flywheel is locked in place at TDC. As the belt is fed onto each cam wheel, if it does not slip on with snug tension. I will loosen that one cam lock, rotate the cam cog very slightly to catch the belt, tension and then replace cam lock. Go to the next one. A rag is suggested under the crank pulley to prevent belt slipping past.

It seems that video would help.
Jump ahead to the 32 minute mark.
However, this is too easy, he started with all four cam tapers loose. Plus the engines after 164 are dead easy to tension properly.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,582 Posts
Discussion Starter #113
Jumping back into the mechanical side of this, tomorrow. Went back and read some of the literature. I'll assemble the tensioning weight and arm and use them to pin the tensioner. Then I can go about removing the belt and getting the cams properly secured with the locks.

Of course I'll take some pictures.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,582 Posts
Discussion Starter #114
Root cause found...

Looks like the tensioner bearing had seized. When I was trying to remove the belt, no movement at all. When I took off the tensioner pulley,I was able to get it to turn, although it was crunchy as could be. My pro mechanic buddy came over and pronounced it DOA. Sort of like seeing road-kill and making a pronouncement...LOL

Any hints on getting the new timing belt on without taking off the crank pulley. I know folks have stated that they turn the belt on its side and wiggle it out, however, I couldn't get that to work when removing the belt.

Tensioner was fully extended when it was on the car. I had to use the vice to get it to retract, and then pinned it. I could not get it to retract any other way. Which I believe means that it is still good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,354 Posts
yeah it will slip in sideways without removing the crank pulley. but if you have problems then go ahead pull the crank pulley off, and might as well change the front oil seal while at it
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,741 Posts

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,582 Posts
Discussion Starter #117
Just pictures:
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,030 Posts
This was published after the prior date on the bulletin above.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,030 Posts
Do you have the bulletins setting the cam belt tension?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,582 Posts
Discussion Starter #120
Yes, I have those, thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
101 - 120 of 141 Posts
Top