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One of the biggest banks in all of history arose out of the 1400s and published a market letter in the late 1500s. One them observed that it was mainly governments that supported alchemists. There has been no other entity that has been so gullible for so long to something for nothing schemes
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Government elites and "true belivers" invest in alchemic beliefs and other magical thinking because they are made insecure by the rapid impact of social changes which both confuse and freighten them. They're like rookie middle managers who are so afraid of making a mistake that they micro-manage everything and everybody only to be defeated by the very unanticipated contradictions they try to conrol. Terrified of losing their power they grasp at any nostrom that appears to reflect their values. We're having a historically severe drought here in Texas and so I'm waiting for the shamans to appear telling us that everything will be ok if we'll just do without air-conditioning, motor-homes, and, of course, old cars.
 

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I've heard that they have already hit your Bar-B-Ques as unsafe !
What proper Texan would put up with that ??
 

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I've heard that they have already hit your Bar-B-Ques as unsafe !
What proper Texan would put up with that ??
Touch our BBQ's and we'll secede. Again. :D

But I really don't think folks know just how environmentally conscious most Texans are. But we think of it in a more practical way, for example, my dad and I always made sure to keep the local deer herds as healthy as possible, because they constituted part of our diet. :)

So we had to properly manage our cattle fields to be sure the deer had enough food, keep an eye on the numbers of predators (because it's a lot easier for coyotes and bobcats to cull weak deer than for us to do it), we even went so far as to plant deer specific sections of our property so they'd have a good supply of protein come winter.

Some folks may think that managing wildlife just to eat it later isn't conservation, but the things we did benefitted not only the deer, but all the other wildlife in the area, and I think that counts.

To highlight this somewhat in the global warming discussion so this isn't a thread hijack, I'll use an example from when I first moved to Pennsylvania. I was getting into my truck (which still has Texas plates atm), which has a sticker of a Red Drum on the back window (it's a type of sal****er game fish for those that don't know, and I love to fish for it). A lady walking by asked me, since I had a picture of a fish, which must mean that I'm an environmentalist (which I guess I am, I care about the wildlife), then why do I drive a big gas guzzling truck that hurts the environment? I politely explained that I don't believe in human-generated climate change, at which point she gave me this pitying, "you obviously don't understand the world" look, and it was all I could do to remain polite and just drive away. Which illustrates my point that most so-called environmentalists, with their morally superior attitude, don't know jack **** about what they're spouting their mouths about.
 

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Yes I do, yet...of how much of an impact we humans have had in conjunction with the Earths natural rhythms or cycles with that of the sun's influence I am none too sure. But to say that we humans have had no or little impact on this planet is just "out right stupid", as Christopher Hitchens might have said.

I would assume the Gun totting, religious fervor of the Sarah Palin, Michele Bachman or Republican whack jobs would say that they need MORE proof yet have faith in god that 'he' (yeah, sure) will work out our problems for us!!!!!! What an Oxymoronic disincentive to intelligence!

We are currently the ONLY species - to my knowledge; who lives outside the circle of life on this planet. We act and behave as though we were a virus, affecting the planet like a cancer. We need to think more perhaps along the lines of Permacultural Design and the Eco Village as a small example or at least some form of equilibrium with Mother Nature and the all encompassing environment. Yet, if you think the innate and ridiculous notion of "American Exceptionalism" will guide us through to a new intellectual renaissance regarding any form of change needed to live in balance with the Earth will occur anytime soon, well good luck because I doubt it!

We are all too entrenched in our own selfish, greedy, cyclical agenda to make another buck for a buck, while screwing anyone over or blowing them up for another religious scheme. Obviously it is not all B&W but so many peeps have their opinion and assume that they KNOW best! I certainly do not have all or none of the answers and, I neither think I have or know all the info nor do I act like my opinion is the path to intellectual redemption from religious spam programming or material and monetary gain.

But I do think that Richard Dawkins is one of my new heros, asside from Hitchens, Maher and many others...unlike Warren Buffet as so many worship, or his ilk!

Erm...where are all the Bee's...?

You know, I think all the smart Texans have already left town and moved to Canada. "...Less reform, more guns, alot more pesticides and a ****e load of taxe breaks for the wealthy" while we "drive our way into the environmental dark ages!"
 

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That is a classic reply! Thankyou, I have used your answer for my example on the Richard Dawkins website in debate. Polite yes, but ignorant more than I.


Touch our BBQ's and we'll secede. Again. :D

But I really don't think folks know just how environmentally conscious most Texans are. But we think of it in a more practical way, for example, my dad and I always made sure to keep the local deer herds as healthy as possible, because they constituted part of our diet. :)

So we had to properly manage our cattle fields to be sure the deer had enough food, keep an eye on the numbers of predators (because it's a lot easier for coyotes and bobcats to cull weak deer than for us to do it), we even went so far as to plant deer specific sections of our property so they'd have a good supply of protein come winter.

Some folks may think that managing wildlife just to eat it later isn't conservation, but the things we did benefitted not only the deer, but all the other wildlife in the area, and I think that counts.

To highlight this somewhat in the global warming discussion so this isn't a thread hijack, I'll use an example from when I first moved to Pennsylvania. I was getting into my truck (which still has Texas plates atm), which has a sticker of a Red Drum on the back window (it's a type of sal****er game fish for those that don't know, and I love to fish for it). A lady walking by asked me, since I had a picture of a fish, which must mean that I'm an environmentalist (which I guess I am, I care about the wildlife), then why do I drive a big gas guzzling truck that hurts the environment? I politely explained that I don't believe in human-generated climate change, at which point she gave me this pitying, "you obviously don't understand the world" look, and it was all I could do to remain polite and just drive away. Which illustrates my point that most so-called environmentalists, with their morally superior attitude, don't know jack **** about what they're spouting their mouths about.
 

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Yes I do, yet...of how much of an impact we humans have had in conjunction with the Earths natural rhythms or cycles with that of the sun's influence I am none too sure. But to say that we humans have had no or little impact on this planet is just "out right stupid", as Christopher Hitchens might have said.

I would assume the Gun totting, religious fervor of the Sarah Palin, Michele Bachman or Republican whack jobs would say that they need MORE proof yet have faith in god that 'he' (yeah, sure) will work out our problems for us!!!!!! What an Oxymoronic disincentive to intelligence!

We are currently the ONLY species - to my knowledge; who lives outside the circle of life on this planet. We act and behave as though we were a virus, affecting the planet like a cancer. We need to think more perhaps along the lines of Permacultural Design and the Eco Village as a small example or at least some form of equilibrium with Mother Nature and the all encompassing environment. Yet, if you think the innate and ridiculous notion of "American Exceptionalism" will guide us through to a new intellectual renaissance regarding any form of change needed to live in balance with the Earth will occur anytime soon, well good luck because I doubt it!

We are all too entrenched in our own selfish, greedy, cyclical agenda to make another buck for a buck, while screwing anyone over or blowing them up for another religious scheme. Obviously it is not all B&W but so many peeps have their opinion and assume that they KNOW best! I certainly do not have all or none of the answers and, I neither think I have or know all the info nor do I act like my opinion is the path to intellectual redemption from religious spam programming or material and monetary gain.

But I do think that Richard Dawkins is one of my new heros, asside from Hitchens, Maher and many others...unlike Warren Buffet as so many worship, or his ilk!

Erm...where are all the Bee's...?

You know, I think all the smart Texans have already left town and moved to Canada. "...Less reform, more guns, alot more pesticides and a ****e load of taxe breaks for the wealthy" while we "drive our way into the environmental dark ages!"
Spam????????????????
 

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I would assume the Gun totting, religious fervor of the Sarah Palin, Michele Bachman or Republican whack jobs would say that they need MORE proof yet have faith in god that 'he' (yeah, sure) will work out our problems for us!!!!!! What an Oxymoronic disincentive to intelligence!
Troll. . . .
 

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That is a classic reply! Thankyou, I have used your answer for my example on the Richard Dawkins website in debate. Polite yes, but ignorant more than I.
Would you mind sending me the link to that? If I'm going to be ridiculed by someone who believes themselves to be smarter than I am, I'd at least like to see the end result.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,470 (Edited)
Randy

Missed this one.

In order to answer as simply as possible, it's best to do it in question and answer form. It covers the past two thousand years.

When were the periods of chronic price inflation in the senior economy?

Third, Sixteenth and the Twentieth Centuries (government is still attempting to keep it going).

When were the periods of great experiments in authoritarian government?

Third, Sixteenth and the Twentieth Centuries (some are dedicated to keeping it going).

How long did each last?

Around 100 years.

When did ours start?

In the early 1900s.

What happened after each tyrannical century?

A long period as centralized government lost initiative in a world of arbitrary decisions and consequent contradictions. There are too many now to list, but growing food to put in gas tanks is a magnificent example.

With decentralization, individuals assumed more responsibility and accountability. This was also demanded of the governing classes.

It certainly wasn't boring as astrology, which right up to Germany in the 1930s never completely lost government sponsorship, became astronomy.

One of the biggest banks in all of history arose out of the 1400s and published a market letter in the late 1500s. One them observed that it was mainly governments that supported alchemists. There has been no other entity that has been so gullible for so long to something for nothing schemes.

The other part of the reformation was the transmutation of alchemy to chemistry.

Except for the state whose unlimited ambition has required chronic currency depreciation otherwise known as "inflation". If it hadn't been used by Rome when it was a police state one could say that the alchemy of inflation was a new tool of government.

In my regular publications it is pointed out that the bubble that concluded in 2007, was similar to that of 1929 when a period of deflation followed, which was the case on all four previous great bubbles back to the first in 1720.

Typically the post-bubble contractions included weak to declining prices.

Randy--no worries--prices are highly likely to be chronically weak as the economy goes through weak recoveries and severe recessions.

It looks like an usually weak recovery is ending. Many commodities have been weak since March-April. US house prices are still in significant decline.

The main items still in up trends are the number of government employees and their compensation packages are going up as well.:eek:

But this is not without notice and seems to prompting some political opposition.
Bob, I've slept on this for a month, and I still can't find a nice way to say it. You live in a ****ing fantasy land. This is not numbers on a commodity trading chart. This is the lives of billions of people. But none of that matters, not to you, because you are so blinded by your own visions that you don't even see the words you read - the words I wrote.

Your reply quoted above has nothing to do with my comment, and quite frankly it pisses me off that you dare purport that it does with a sanctimonious tone to boot. Please delete the post as it adds nothing to the conversation.

Then we'll try again...
 

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Randy

What number post was this one?

I think it might have been in response to your worries about run-away-price-inflation.

I was trying to explain that another age of government imposed price inflation and authoritarian intrusions into private life was coming to an end.

The "Global Warming" and "Climate Change" movements have also largely been government intrusions into private life.

Both are based upon the superstition that the state can and needs to "manage" everyone's lives.

Of course, the promotion that the state can "manage" the climate is the most audacious official superstition since the Vatican insisted that the solar system rotated around the earth.

That was the last time that the skepticism natural to the advance of science came under the severe displeasure of totalitarian government.

In 1776 your country recorded a magnificent reformation of remote and authoritarian government.

Another reformation of bullying and increasingly costly government seems to be underway. This one is world-wide.

I don't think my post hi-jacked your thread about global warming.

That has occurred each time someone has posted about their personal worries about the "environment".
 

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Global Warming? How the hell do we know if there really is global warming with only 200 years of recorded temperatures. It started with Galileo Galilee. Maybe the sun is putting out more energy. When I ship a car overseas, I don't worry about the ships creating smoke. Or how about all those polluting trucks? Nope. It OVER POPULATION that is the problem.
 

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Global Warming? How the hell do we know if there really is global warming with only 200 years of recorded temperatures. ... Its OVER POPULATION that is the problem.
+1

And wasteful industry supplying our "I want all the gadgets now" modern attitude.


Plus the general population now knows that it cannot trust a scientist to be impartial. A very sad situation that has huge consequences, and I seriously hope causes a significant reduction in their future budgets so they will pull their heads out of their @rses.
Pete
 

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HMMmm?

Every time "Smallfries" posts in any forum he mentions a shipping company.

Also, the temperature record goes back for hundreds of thousands of years.

Perhaps he could leave out the shipping tout and work on improving his contribution to this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,475 (Edited)
Randy

What number post was this one?

I think it might have been in response to your worries about run-away-price-inflation.

I was trying to explain that another age of government imposed price inflation and authoritarian intrusions into private life was coming to an end.

The "Global Warming" and "Climate Change" movements have also largely been government intrusions into private life.

Both are based upon the superstition that the state can and needs to "manage" everyone's lives.

Of course, the promotion that the state can "manage" the climate is the most audacious official superstition since the Vatican insisted that the solar system rotated around the earth.

That was the last time that the skepticism natural to the advance of science came under the severe displeasure of totalitarian government.

In 1776 your country recorded a magnificent reformation of remote and authoritarian government.

Another reformation of bullying and increasingly costly government seems to be underway. This one is world-wide.

I don't think my post hi-jacked your thread about global warming.

That has occurred each time someone has posted about their personal worries about the "environment".
Post 1518

Bob, if the state doesn't manage our energy production, we are facing a major reduction in human population. The free market works on supply and demand, yes? Well, sir, if the supply of food against the demand for food raises prices beyond what you can afford, the honorable, capitalist, free-market response is to take your last funds, buy a burial insurance policy, and then die of starvation.

BTW, why do you insist on putting words in my mouth: I never said anything about runaway inflation. That is your bugaboo, so you see it everywhere. What I am talking about is energy getting increasingly expensive as fossil fuels get more expensive - not because of government, not because of "inflation", but, HELLO?, because as things get scarcer the price goes up! Isn't that precisely what the free market demands when demand stays constant or increases?

Please, I know that you are an intelligent person, but please read what I write with a open mind and please don't squeeze my ideas into your well-worn mental ruts! I don't agree with you on a lot of things: that means that either you or I or both of us are wrong. Instead of tossing cliches at each other, let's try to have an actual discourse. We might learn something.

Note: I didn't say a word about the "environment". That's because I am not talking about the environment. I am talking about billions of humans dying of starvation. No energy = no food, in the modern world!
 

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Wow ninety-nine pages! That's quite a thread indeed.

Here's a hypothetical for you all to ponder and I'm sorry if this has been covered but there just wasn't time to read all of the lengthy arguments. And please understand that I'm not saying that it will or will not happen. Lets just for fun propose that global climate change sometime in the future causes catastrophic disasters in the weather and our ability to grow food products. All of you who have been arguing that this is just a way for liberals and the government to increase regulation and taxes will be the first ones to complain bitterly to the government for not doing anything about climate change when they had the chance.
 

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Warmer temps and more CO in the atmosphere will make crops grow better. Add big storms with lots of rain and we will get even more crops over a wider area.
If anything, we will all die from eating too much.
I am still waiting for the global cooling predicted in the '70s.......
 

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The simple answer to your question is this: 1) Kulaks being intentionally starved to death by Stalin's state apparatus. 2) The equally notorious case of potatoes rotting in fields because the centrally planned Soviet state couldn't figure out how to bring them to market.

It continues to amaze me when people assert that statist solutions, whether totalitarian central planning or more benign state interventions in markets, like price controls, are best when, time and again, history tells us that free markets based on individual initiative and inventiveness are dramatically superior in meeting basic human needs. Just try to find a good burger in Pongyang these days. :) The role of the State is to provide protections so that free-markets can flourish; it cannot reliably supplant the inherent superiority of free markets. Whenever this happens there is failure.

A suggested reading (emphasis mine):

The Road to Serfdom is a book written by the Austrian-born economist and philosopher Friedrich von Hayek (1899–1992) between 1940–1943, in which he ”warned of the danger of tyranny that inevitably results from government control of economic decision-making through central planning,”[1] and in which he argues that the abandonment of individualism, classical liberalism, and freedom inevitably leads to socialist or fascist oppression and tyranny and the serfdom of the individual. Significantly, Hayek challenged the general view among British academics that fascism was a capitalist reaction against socialism, instead arguing that fascism and socialism had common roots in central economic planning and the power of the state over the individual
 

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Randy

Try:

http://www.econlib.org/library/ypdbooks/jevons/jvnCQ.html

It's not a too long a read--the book is by one of the leading economists in the crazy 1860s.

Coal was going to run out and civilization would collapse to a subsistence level. In so many words--catastrophe.

Substitute "crude oil" for "coal" and you will feel right at home.

The title, in full, is:

"The Coal Question

An Inquiry Concerning the Progress of the Nation, and the Probable Exhaustion of Our Coal Mines"



:cool::cool:
 
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