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Does CO2 cause climate change was the question that Subtle asked me. To answer this I purposed search climate change skeptic sights, because of course you would not believe me if the source was from "believers". What I have found in the following article by Judith Curry is that indeed CO2 is part of greenhouse gases that via radiative forcing maintains our planet's temperature range, without it we would apparently be like the moon.
https://judithcurry.com/2013/09/20/co2-control-knob-fallacy/ said:
From the perspective of comparative planetology, I think that Lacis makes a plausible argument, from which I infer that without CO2 in the atmosphere, the Earth’s climate would more closely resemble the climate of its moon rather than the current Earth’s climate. For reference, the surface temperature of the moon can swing between -150°C during the night and 120°C during the day. (pay attention, greenhouse effect deniers).
So one can deduce that changing the amount of greenhouse gas in our atmosphere would have an affect on this radiative forcing. And yes if we listened to people like Richard Branson and invented a device to remove CO2 from our atmosphere we would be in big trouble. Again as I said in my previous post, it's all about the correct balance. I'm sure Richard, with his competition (https://www.virginearth.com/the-prize/), does not actually want to remove all CO2, I hope ...

How did I get to Judith Curry?, I searched for female climate change skeptics because I remember reading a link in this thread where a female scientist said there is no denying that CO2 and other greenhouse gases control the climate temperature wise, but this female scientist argued that much larger volumes of CO2 is required to make the temperature affects that the climate change brigade like to push. I think that female scientist was Judith, but could be wrong.
https://roadtoparis.info/top-list/judith-curry/ said:
Judith Curry is fast becoming the go-to scientist favoured by the more sceptical ends of the climate debate, though she is more than capable of making a name for herself in her own right.
I have answered that CO2 helps set the earth's climate, and note Judith's comment re greenhouse effect. I think we can all agree, hopefully, about the greenhouse effect.



Found this too (see picture), but who knows it might be fake as from a climate news site. Supposedly a 1982 Exxon report. From: http://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/documents/1982 Exxon Primer on CO2 Greenhouse Effect.pdf
Pete
 

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but who knows it might be fake as from a climate news site. Supposedly a 1982 Exxon report.
No, there's a good chance that's real. The oil and gas industry has known about this for decades. They're all publicly traded companies so they have to disclose every year the risks they see to their business. Global warming is near the top of the list for all of them every year. They're businesses in business to make money, so they can't afford to hold religious views or stick their heads in the sand. They have to deal with reality head-on.

I work for an oil and gas producer and it goes in all of our reports, we have engineers dedicated to reducing the greenhouse gas emissions from our operations (but obviously not from the product itself - not our problem!) and all of our scientists and engineers are all quite aware of it. I was amazed when I started to find that several track their carbon footprint closely and a few even drive electric cars. Don't get me wrong, this isn't some environmental operation - we drill deep in west Texas, frac the hell out of the wells and right now due to the poor pipeline situation flare off an enormous amount of gas. But these people are experts who deal in reality.

Heck, even the Trump administration says it's real - but say it's just too expensive to do anything about it.

But arguing with the fools on this thread is like trying to convince a Catholic that the Pope wears lady's underthings. Even if he came out on Easter Sunday to show them off they wouldn't believe it.
 

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Maybe some should start with what the purpose of our atmosphere is:
https://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Atmosphere/overview.html said:
The atmosphere is a mixture of nitrogen (78%), oxygen (21%), and other gases (1%) that surrounds Earth. High above the planet, the atmosphere becomes thinner until it gradually reaches space. It is divided into five layers. Most of the weather and clouds are found in the first layer.

The atmosphere is an important part of what makes Earth livable. It blocks some of the Sun's dangerous rays from reaching Earth. It traps heat, making Earth a comfortable temperature. And the oxygen within our atmosphere is essential for life.
Yes I try to stop, I do ... but I worry that some here think that just because they are old car enthusiast they have to be climate change deniers. Nobody, in our near future, is going to come to your house and take your treasured Alfa away.
Pete
 

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What is a greenhouse gas:
https://www.windows2universe.org/earth/climate/cli_greengas.html said:
Even though only a tiny amount of the gases in Earth’s atmosphere are greenhouse gases, they have a huge effect on climate.

There are several different types of greenhouse gases. The major ones are carbon dioxide, water vapor, methane, and nitrous oxide. All of these have molecules with three or more atoms. The atoms are held together loosely enough that they vibrate when they absorb heat. Eventually, the vibrating molecule will release the radiation. The radiation will likely be absorbed by another greenhouse gas molecule. This process, which keeps heat near the Earth’s surface, is called the greenhouse effect.

Almost all of the other gases in Earth’s atmosphere are nitrogen and oxygen. The two atoms in these molecules are bound together tightly and unable to vibrate, so they cannot absorb heat and contribute to the greenhouse effect.
They can test how atoms react in laboratories ...

CO2 is an insulator,
https://medium.com/@budwilliams/co2-is-an-insulating-gas-it-absorbs-infrared-heat-photons-bc258c9bad47 said:
CO2 is an insulating gas. It absorbs Infrared heat photons.
And there are some stats from NASA in there ... but they tell fibs too ...

And if looking for a healthy debate to read with some numbers: https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/questions/7502/is-there-any-experiment-to-prove-that-co2-with-the-atmosphere-concentration-can

I'll pfffffff off now :)
Pete
 

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I just have to share some points from a similar topic on another automotive forum. No credit to me for the observation, credit Mr. Sideways.

#1: CO2 increases food production from crops. This means that the benefits of increasing CO2 have been entirely ignored by one side, and could mean that the world is better off increasing climate change or global warming or CO2 (e.g. solve world hunger).
Note that global poverty/hunger is down.

In other words, the opposite of a catastrophe: Serendipity.

#2: All of the climate models keep failing to predict the future. They have to be revised each year, and the revisions only improve their back-testing, never their forward predictions. This hints at failed "science" or put more plainly: propaganda. One doesn't expect propaganda to have its math check out. Mathematical models are supposed to be checked. It's a core problem when they fail. With "Climate Change" the models fail every year. This thread is over a decade old. That much failure is not a one-off event, yet one side brushes off the failures of the climate models every year.

#3: One side keeps tampering with the temperature data. As documented hundreds of pages ago in this very thread, even NASA hides the raw temperature data (one official NASA link went to Maryland government employee salaries even though it was labeled as Raw Temp Data).

#4: There's a pretty good chance that what is going on is that Nefarious actors are abusing the general Public's good nature to conflate pollution, which the Public dislikes, with some larger goal such as "climate change" in some sort of grand effort to wreck or transfer wealth away from the top 1st World nations.

#5: Sun spots have been at record lows for the entire length of this thread. There is a past historical record of a Maunder Minimum creating a Little Ice Age. That needs to be watched, just in case the opposite is happening from what is being claimed will happen (especially since the climate models keep failing).
 

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Kens, the comment re more CO2 resulting in more plant/food growth ignores the fact that more CO2 means hotter temperatures and more eratic climate, hardly ideal for growing crops.

Just like our Alfa engines, the correct balance/mixture is required, you can't just dump more petrol in
Pete
 

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According to scientists that study the origins of the earth the combinations of elements, etc. on the earth is a billion to one (something like that) chance and that is exactly what was needed to create life ... and yet you guys think we can happily muck with that balance.

We have already learnt what chloroflurocarbon did to our atmosphere re ozone layer ...


Re controlling the masses, the church has been doing that and does that better than anything we have created
Pete
 

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We have already learnt what chloroflurocarbon did to our atmosphere re ozone layer ...

Well, thanks for providing another example of how some are fooled again and again by snake oil salesman and others who make a living from pushing panic.

There was no hole in the ozone. Just another natural cycle.
 

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Just close your eyes and click your heals together and just keep repeating "there's no place like home, there's no place like home". Should do the trick!
When I completed my degree in Geophysics, lecturers reviewed two theories. One was that ice ages were due to lots of precipitation, because somehow the Arctic Ocean was open and the continental masses were frozen.
The other theory was that ice age expansions and interglacials were caused by changes in the amount of energy hitting the Earth.
And this varied due to orbital mechanics.
All that was needed for an interglacial was that each melt season lost more snow and ice than was deposited.
Made sense to me then, but there was not enough evidence to confirm either theory.
Then, in the late 1960s, data started to accumulate and it confirms the orbital mechanics that temp of the climate varies due to changes in the amount of heat received at the Earth's surface.
For me, it has been a fascinating interest for a long time.
If you turn your attention from glib comments to a serious review of the literature, you might find it as rewarding as I have.
Worth the try.
:)
 

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It is also important to understand that there is a very fundamental difference between U.S. citizens and British Commonwealth subjects. In the United States, we citizens are sovereign, not the people in our federal or state governments. In the British Commonwealth of nations, the people are subjects, while the people in government are sovereign, in addition to the Crown.

In the United States, WE THE PEOPLE are having to constantly fight back against those people in government who very much desire to turn us from citizens into subjects. Hence all of these various schemes to tax and control us for their own benefit.

It is not that we are insensitive, but we simply value freedom of choice over a hollow promise of security and fairness from a few people in government.
 

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will it ever end?

Maybe there's a "balance" we all conveniently ignore, hmm.
 

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We have already learnt what chloroflurocarbon did to our atmosphere re ozone layer ...

Well, thanks for providing another example of how some are fooled again and again by snake oil salesman and others who make a living from pushing panic.

There was no hole in the ozone. Just another natural cycle.
Rubbish. As I live down here where the hole is, it is 100% true.

Very dangerous down here to be out in the sun, even though temps are low
Pete
 

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The first three words in this thread are "DO YOU BELIEVE". Do you believe in GOD the resurrection of Jesus and the virgin birth or the man on the moon conspiracy or CLIMATE CHANGE Trying to change a person's belief with a barrage of facts, figures, and theories for or against will make no difference? Arguing climate change theory is pointless.
 
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