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I think that being deeply suspicious of totalitarian "solutions" (see Agenda 21) is a perfectly legitimate point of argument. Simply put: my freedom and liberty is worth more than your need to feel valued and safe.
I see you've been listening to right wing conspiracy theorists regarding Agenda 21. It's a nearly 30 year old non-binding resolution that urges international cooperation on the environment (and other matters). There are no "totalitarian solutions" contained in it. In fact, there are no solutions at all.

But your critique is a non-sequitur. Even if Agenda 21 was a plot to force everyone to live on collective farms and eat nothing but cabbage, that has literally no relationship whatsoever to global temperatures. Temperature is a simple basic fact, and it doesn't change because you dislike what someone wants to do about it.

Analogy: You set the temperature in your house to 72 degrees, but your wife turns it up to 74. You complain it's too hot. If your wife reasoned like you, she would simply deny the temperature ever went above 72 degrees (in fact it's going down!) and then claim you were planning a totalitarian plot to take away control of the thermostat. But no matter what she says about the temperature or your motivations for wanting to turn down the thermostat, that does not change the fact that it is 74 degrees in your house.
 

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BS

Here is a thought....

"GREEN EGGS AND HAM" (by Doctor Seuss)

I AM SAM. I AM SAM. SAM I AM.

THAT SAM-I-AM! THAT SAM-I-AM! I DO NOT LIKE THAT SAM-I-AM!

DO WOULD YOU LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM?

I DO NOT LIKE THEM,SAM-I-AM.
I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM.

WOULD YOU LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE?

I WOULD NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.
I WOULD NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE.
I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.

WOULD YOU LIKE THEM IN A HOUSE?
WOULD YOU LIKE THEN WITH A MOUSE?

I DO NOT LIKE THEM IN A HOUSE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A MOUSE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE.
I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.

WOULD YOU EAT THEM IN A BOX?
WOULD YOU EAT THEM WITH A FOX?

NOT IN A BOX. NOT WITH A FOX.
NOT IN A HOUSE. NOT WITH A MOUSE.
I WOULD NOT EAT THEM HERE OR THERE.
I WOULD NOT EAT THEM ANYWHERE.
I WOULD NOT EAT GREEN EGGS AND HAM.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.

WOULD YOU? COULD YOU? IN A CAR?
EAT THEM! EAT THEM! HERE THEY ARE.

I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT, IN A CAR.

YOU MAY LIKE THEM. YOU WILL SEE.
YOU MAY LIKE THEM IN A TREE!

I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT IN A TREE.
NOT IN A CAR! YOU LET ME BE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM IN A BOX.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A FOX.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM IN A HOUSE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A MOUSE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE.
I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.

A TRAIN! A TRAIN! A TRAIN! A TRAIN!
COULD YOU, WOULD YOU ON A TRAIN?

NOT ON TRAIN! NOT IN A TREE!
NOT IN A CAR! SAM! LET ME BE!
I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT, IN A BOX.
I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT, WITH A FOX.
I WILL NOT EAT THEM IN A HOUSE.
I WILL NOT EAT THEM HERE OR THERE.
I WILL NOT EAT THEM ANYWHERE.
I DO NOT EAT GREEM EGGS AND HAM.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.

SAY! IN THE DARK? HERE IN THE DARK!
WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, IN THE DARK?

I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT, IN THE DARK.

WOULD YOU COULD YOU IN THE RAIN?

I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT IN THE RAIN.
NOT IN THE DARK. NOT ON A TRAIN.
NOT IN A CAR. NOT IN A TREE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM, YOU SEE.
NOT IN A HOUSE. NOT IN A BOX.
NOT WITH A MOUSE. NOT WITH A FOX.
I WILL NOT EAT THEM HERE OR THERE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE!

YOU DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM?

I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.

COULD YOU, WOULD YOU, WITH A GOAT?

I WOULD NOT, COULD NOT WITH A GOAT!

WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, ON A BOAT?

I COULD NOT, WOULD NOT, ON A BOAT.
I WILL NOT, WILL NOT, WITH A GOAT.
I WILL NOT EAT THEM IN THE RAIN.
NOT IN THE DARK! NOT IN A TREE!
NOT IN A CAR! YOU LET ME BE!
I DO NOT LIKE THEM IN A BOX.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A FOX.
I WILL NOT EAT THEM IN A HOUSE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM WITH A MOUSE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM HERE OR THERE.
I DO NOT LIKE THEM ANYWHERE!
I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM!
I DO NOT LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM.

YOU DO NOT LIKE THEM. SO YOU SAY.
TRY THEM! TRY THEM! AND YOU MAY.
TRY THEM AND YOU MAY, I SAY.

sAM! IF YOU LET ME BE,
I WILL TRY THEM. YOU WILL SEE.

(... and he tries them ...)

SAY! I LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM!
I DO! I LIKE THEM, SAM-I-AM!
AND I WOULD EAT THEM IN A BOAT.
AND I WOULD EAT THEM WITH A GOAT...
AND I WILL EAT THEM, IN THE RAIN.
AND IN THE DARK. AND ON A TRAIN.
AND IN A CAR. AND IN A TREE.
THEY ARE SO GOOD, SO GOOD, YOU SEE!
SO I WILL EAT THEM IN A BOX.
AND I WILL EAT THEM WITH A FOX.
AND I WILL EAT THEM IN A HOUSE.
AND I WILL EAT THEM WITH A MOUSE.
AND I WILL EAT THEM HERE AND THERE.
SAY! I WILL EAT THEM ANYWHERE!
I DO SO LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM!
THANK YOU! THANK YOU, SAM I AM.
 

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I see you've been listening to right wing conspiracy theorists regarding Agenda 21.
I don't have a great need to "listen to right wing conspiracy theorists". I am one. Most "sustainability" arguments are predicated on Agenda 21 ideas.
 

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Wow! All caps!! Must be very serious....

Ossi is very right. So much humor, and so many treating it all to seriously. As Shakespear said: Me thinks you doth protest too much...
 

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Nealric
I posted the Great Lakes temps to show the decline in unaltered data since the huge El Nino that peaked in 2016.
If you would like to review a very extensive history of unaltered temp data just look up Tony Heller.
 

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Come here to California if you want to be in the company of Crazy Liberals.....
They have a lot of millitary bases there, right? That explains this doozy: a report from a liberal outfit calling themselves "The Department of Defense of the United States of America" (lol - what are they defending, a kale farm?!?!). They're worried about their "bases" (aka ******* coffee shops) flooding. Too funny what these liberal weenies come up with!

https://media.defense.gov/2019/Jan/29/2002084200/-1/-1/1/CLIMATE-CHANGE-REPORT-2019.PDF&ved=2ahUKEwi6loO7gvfiAhUSKa0KHVrJCWYQFjABegQIBxAI&usg=AOvVaw0bth6XFmg3OBVGtOGzVGnV
 

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I live in a county north of San Francisco where I see at least 15 Tesla's a day. The owner's don't realize how much electricity it takes to charge their cars...yet they think they are carbon neutral.....go figure..
 

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If risk of coastal flooding had any basis, municipalities would be required to disclose the risk in their bond offerings. In addition, coastal mortgages would be redlined/not available. The GW scare is all about accelerated taxation.
 

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I
see you've been listening to right wing conspiracy theorists regarding Agenda 21. It's a nearly 30 year old non-binding resolution that urges international cooperation on the environment (and other matters). There are no "totalitarian solutions" contained in it. In fact, there are no solutions at all.
I so love this discussion. This is almost too easy. :001_smile: And I love the part about housing migrants in "spare beds".

From Breitbart:

Drivers will be forced off the roads in Ireland and the population packed into “higher density” cities under a long-awaited climate plan which will ‘revolutionise’ people’s lifestyle and behaviours, according to local media.

“Nudge” policies such as huge tax hikes, as well as bans and red tape outlined in the plan, will pave the way to a “vibrant” Ireland of zero carbon emissions by 2050 according to the government, which last year committed to boost the country’s 4.7 million-strong population by a further million with mass migration.

In order to avert a “climate apocalypse”, the government plans to force people “out of private cars because they are the biggest offenders for emissions”, according to transport minister Shane Ross whose proposals — which include banning fossil fuel vehicles from towns and cities nationwide — are posed to cripple ordinary motorists, local media reports.

Launching the plan in Dublin, leader Leo Varadkar outlined his vision for an Ireland of ‘higher density’ cities consisting of populations whose lifestyles and behaviours have been totally transformed by ‘carrot and stick’ policies outlined in the climate plan.

“Our approach will be to nudge people and businesses to change behaviour and adapt new technologies through incentives, disincentives, regulations and information,” the globalist prime minister said.

“We are going to change how electricity is produced and consumed, how our homes and workplaces are heated; the way we travel; the types of vehicles we purchase; and how food is produced.

‘Put an Empty Space to Better Use’: Irish Urged to House Migrants in Spare Beds https://t.co/jdK2OtYA2a

— Breitbart London (@BreitbartLondon) May 16, 2018

“It’s about vibrant, populated city centres, liveable, with excellent amenities and transport as we embrace higher densities.”

The document, which was unveiled on Tuesday, features more than 180 measures to decarbonise the Irish economy including making private car ownership prohibitively expensive — with petrol and diesel car sales banned by 2030, a date by which it says general carbon tax will be increased from €20 a tonne to “at least” €80.

In addition, the plans demand that coal and peat-fired power stations are replaced with wind farms and other “green” energy sources in order to meet the requirement that 70 per cent of electricity will be generated from renewables by 2030.

Ireland: Political Class Back Globalism, But People Fear Country 'Changing Too Quickly', 'Too Politically Correct' https://t.co/vcTB40fCgM

— Breitbart London (@BreitbartLondon) May 2, 2019

But plans to dramatically slash carbon emissions by ditching tried and tested energy sources such as coal and nuclear in favour of renewables will necessarily result in a collapse in living standards according to scientists including Cambridge engineering professor Michael Kelly, who has previously explained that such proposals “represent total madness”.

“In energy terms the current generation of renewable energy technologies alone will not enable a civilised modern society to continue,” he asserted in a peer-reviewed paper published in 2016, pointing out that renewables such as solar, wind, and hydro power supply just seven per cent of electricity needs globally while “the rate at which fossil fuels are growing is seven times that at which the low carbon energies are growing”.

The Hughes Medal-decorated physicist cautioned: “The call to decarbonise the global economy by 80% by 2050 can now only be described as glib in my opinion, as the underlying analysis shows it is only possible if we wish to see large parts of the population die from starvation, destitution or violence in the absence of enough low-carbon energy to sustain society.”
 

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I
see you've been listening to right wing conspiracy theorists regarding Agenda 21. It's a nearly 30 year old non-binding resolution that urges international cooperation on the environment (and other matters). There are no "totalitarian solutions" contained in it. In fact, there are no solutions at all.
I so love this discussion. This is almost too easy. <img src="http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/images/smilies/001_smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="001 Smile" class="inlineimg" /> And I love the part about housing migrants in "spare beds".

From Breitbart:

Drivers will be forced off the roads in Ireland and the population packed into “higher density” cities under a long-awaited climate plan which will ‘revolutionise’ people’s lifestyle and behaviours, according to local media.

“Nudge” policies such as huge tax hikes, as well as bans and red tape outlined in the plan, will pave the way to a “vibrant” Ireland of zero carbon emissions by 2050 according to the government, which last year committed to boost the country’s 4.7 million-strong population by a further million with mass migration.

In order to avert a “climate apocalypse”, the government plans to force people “out of private cars because they are the biggest offenders for emissions”, according to transport minister Shane Ross whose proposals — which include banning fossil fuel vehicles from towns and cities nationwide — are posed to cripple ordinary motorists, local media reports.

Launching the plan in Dublin, leader Leo Varadkar outlined his vision for an Ireland of ‘higher density’ cities consisting of populations whose lifestyles and behaviours have been totally transformed by ‘carrot and stick’ policies outlined in the climate plan.

“Our approach will be to nudge people and businesses to change behaviour and adapt new technologies through incentives, disincentives, regulations and information,” the globalist prime minister said.

“We are going to change how electricity is produced and consumed, how our homes and workplaces are heated; the way we travel; the types of vehicles we purchase; and how food is produced.

‘Put an Empty Space to Better Use’: Irish Urged to House Migrants in Spare Beds https://t.co/jdK2OtYA2a

— Breitbart London (@BreitbartLondon) May 16, 2018

“It’s about vibrant, populated city centres, liveable, with excellent amenities and transport as we embrace higher densities.”

The document, which was unveiled on Tuesday, features more than 180 measures to decarbonise the Irish economy including making private car ownership prohibitively expensive — with petrol and diesel car sales banned by 2030, a date by which it says general carbon tax will be increased from €20 a tonne to “at least” €80.

In addition, the plans demand that coal and peat-fired power stations are replaced with wind farms and other “green” energy sources in order to meet the requirement that 70 per cent of electricity will be generated from renewables by 2030.

Ireland: Political Class Back Globalism, But People Fear Country 'Changing Too Quickly', 'Too Politically Correct' https://t.co/vcTB40fCgM

— Breitbart London (@BreitbartLondon) May 2, 2019

But plans to dramatically slash carbon emissions by ditching tried and tested energy sources such as coal and nuclear in favour of renewables will necessarily result in a collapse in living standards according to scientists including Cambridge engineering professor Michael Kelly, who has previously explained that such proposals “represent total madness”.

“In energy terms the current generation of renewable energy technologies alone will not enable a civilised modern society to continue,” he asserted in a peer-reviewed paper published in 2016, pointing out that renewables such as solar, wind, and hydro power supply just seven per cent of electricity needs globally while “the rate at which fossil fuels are growing is seven times that at which the low carbon energies are growing”.

The Hughes Medal-decorated physicist cautioned: “The call to decarbonise the global economy by 80% by 2050 can now only be described as glib in my opinion, as the underlying analysis shows it is only possible if we wish to see large parts of the population die from starvation, destitution or violence in the absence of enough low-carbon energy to sustain society.”
So you found some Irish politicians whose ideas you disagree with...

Curiously, you will still find plenty of private homes and cars in Ireland. It’s almost as if the quoted sources aren’t actually the shadowy climate illuminati you seem convinced are going to take away your freedoms any day now.

You haven’t refuted my point that “Agenda 21” is nothing but a set of goals for international cooperation.

I respect that you don’t want policies to resolve policy change that limit personal freedoms. I even agree to an extent. That has nothing to do with the underlying facts about climate.
 

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If risk of coastal flooding had any basis, municipalities would be required to disclose the risk in their bond offerings. In addition, coastal mortgages would be redlined/not available. The GW scare is all about accelerated taxation.
Actually, coastal bonds and mortgages are an issue. Take it from Black Rock, one of the largest investment firms in the world:

https://www.blackrockblog.com/2019/04/17/climate-risks-impact-to-portfolios/

And mortgages in coastal area are starting to be a problem due to the cost of flood insurance- mortgage underwriters will not fund mortgages without it on the coast. The only reason you can get flood insurance in a lot of coastal areas is that it’s federally subsidized.
 

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Gosh, how could anyone resist such a Utopia!
Of course, the overlords will still need their space and cars and armed security...
 

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I live in a county north of San Francisco where I see at least 15 Tesla's a day. The owner's don't realize how much electricity it takes to charge their cars...yet they think they are carbon neutral.....go figure..
Why do you assume they think anything at all about carbon? A good gearhead friend of mine daily drives a Tesla. Nothing to do with the environment- he wanted a car that could do 0-60 in under 3 seconds while staying a quiet and comfortable commuter car.

That said, electricity generation is more efficient than internal combustion. Power generation is increasingly switching to natural gas, which burns cleaner than gasoline.

Even if you don’t believe in climate change, you should appreciate that EVs will greatly reduce smog in urban areas.
 

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There is a major problem with the chart. Warming has been exaggerated by those employed with a bias to keep the fraud going forward.

Fear = Funding
Actually, it would be more profitable to be a climate change denying scientist. You get invited on Fox, etc.... the real climate scientists mostly labor in obscurity for peanuts. Seriously- wages in science are awful compared to the time/effort of getting a PhD.
 
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