Alfa Romeo Forums banner

1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
87 verde engine in 83 GTV6.
Driving on the track at the national event in Detroit.
Out side temp 95 degrees. During practice session, car ran great for the first three laps. Then it started to cut out in the hard right hand turns. It didn't sputter or lose power, it jut went dead like a switch went off. Drift through the corner and straighten out and it would come on as quick as it went off.
No problem in the left turns or straights. Parked the car and it idles perfect, engine temp never above 175. Gas tank over three quarters full. Wiggled some wires on the fire wall, found a loose connection and secured it. Took the car out for second practice and it ran great for three laps and again cut out in the right hand turns. Parked the car and it idles and revs fine. Shut it down and waited for the time trials. About one hour later ran the warm up lap and first hot lap without a problem, actually set my fastest lap of the day, on the third lap it started again cutting out in the right handers. Drove the car 20 min. back to detroit without a problem.
Next day drove to the auotcross, ran the first three runs and then it all started again, cutting out in right hand turns. Then drove the car 5 hours home on the freeway without a problem, did not take any exit ramps hard enough to make it cut out. Can't be a fuel level problem, why ok after sitting for 1 hour. Not a fuel pressure problem, pulled inertial switch and engine doesn't cut out so fast, fuel rail still pressurized. Any suggestions would be helpfull.
Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,427 Posts
Is something happening with your throttle cable as the engine tilts as you go through the turns?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Thats odd, it might be a loose ground or something hard to trace, also a battery wire? AFM flapper? maybe the spring is worn. Sounds like you have quite the hunt ahead of you. Good Luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Is something happening with your throttle cable as the engine tilts as you go through the turns?
Throttle cable is OK. The thing I can't figure out is each time the first few laps were OK then all of a sudden it would begin cutting out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Something could be vibrating loose, or the temp could have something to do with it, maybe the cat or o2 sensor is acting up while you are being more aggressive with it. Maybe the fuel system is having pressurization issues or the fuel pressure regulator is getting held up during turning? This isn't very comforting but you may have to start with the easiest, most simple explanation and keep checking until you find it. Hopefully someone will have already had this problem and figured it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thats odd, it might be a loose ground or something hard to trace, also a battery wire? AFM flapper? maybe the spring is worn. Sounds like you have quite the hunt ahead of you. Good Luck
battery and cable secure. I would expect a flapper problem to be progressive. This cuts out like a switch, completely off then on.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,078 Posts
Thats odd, it might be a loose ground or something hard to trace, also a battery wire? AFM flapper? maybe the spring is worn. Sounds like you have quite the hunt ahead of you. Good Luck
I know squat about Milanos - but it does sound like a loose ground or wire. Are there any important electrical grounds on the right hand side of the engine bay? I'd think with pulling a hard right the G-forces will want to pull things to the left, perhaps something on that side of car is pulling away from it's ground or lifting into contact with another wire or ground and causing the shutdown.:confused:
On a brighter note - at least it's fairly consistant :D usually, they're more Mercurial in their habits!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
My first suspicion is electrical due to quick on/off. Either loosing spark or power to the injectors. My first approach will be a through review of all obvious and not so obvious electrical connections. I plan to autocross the car in the comming weeks. I think I'll rig up my timing light and secure it in the passengers seat to monitor the spark. If it acts up again and the light stops flashing, I'll at least have narrowed it down a bit. If spark continues, I'll examine the fuel delivery system. (Also noted that the idot lights on the dash do not come on when the engine dies.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I know squat about Milanos - but it does sound like a loose ground or wire. Are there any important electrical grounds on the right hand side of the engine bay? I'd think with pulling a hard right the G-forces will want to pull things to the left, perhaps something on that side of car is pulling away from it's ground or lifting into contact with another wire or ground and causing the shutdown.:confused:
On a brighter note - at least it's fairly consistant :D usually, they're more Mercurial in their habits!
My first thought also, but why does resting the car for a time eliminate the problem for a few laps? That's what has me stumped
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,078 Posts
(Also noted that the idot lights on the dash do not come on when the engine dies.)
That sounds like the battery is becoming ungrounded...how's the condition of the grounding wire?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,078 Posts
My first thought also, but why does resting the car for a time eliminate the problem for a few laps? That's what has me stumped
Actually - I'd really resist the urge factor that into the equation. It's hard to do when it seems so consistent, I know, but sometimes it's just a coincidence that it happens that way. :(
I once had a loose starter wire, that would render my car dead only when it was warm (so it seemed - though thinking about it right now, perhaps the metal expanded on the spade connector and that caused it to lose the connection?), I'd let it cool down and it would start right back up on the first try. Drive it some more, shut it down, try to restart after a few minutes and nothing... Drove me absolutely mad for months before finding the culprit!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
87 verde engine in 83 GTV6.
Driving on the track at the national event in Detroit.
Out side temp 95 degrees. During practice session, car ran great for the first three laps. Then it started to cut out in the hard right hand turns. It didn't sputter or lose power, it jut went dead like a switch went off. Drift through the corner and straighten out and it would come on as quick as it went off.
No problem in the left turns or straights. Parked the car and it idles perfect, engine temp never above 175. Gas tank over three quarters full. Wiggled some wires on the fire wall, found a loose connection and secured it. Took the car out for second practice and it ran great for three laps and again cut out in the right hand turns. Parked the car and it idles and revs fine. Shut it down and waited for the time trials. About one hour later ran the warm up lap and first hot lap without a problem, actually set my fastest lap of the day, on the third lap it started again cutting out in the right handers. Drove the car 20 min. back to detroit without a problem.
Next day drove to the auotcross, ran the first three runs and then it all started again, cutting out in right hand turns. Then drove the car 5 hours home on the freeway without a problem, did not take any exit ramps hard enough to make it cut out. Can't be a fuel level problem, why ok after sitting for 1 hour. Not a fuel pressure problem, pulled inertial switch and engine doesn't cut out so fast, fuel rail still pressurized. Any suggestions would be helpfull.
Jim
I'll bet you've got a bad connection *somewhere* on the right hand side of the motor. Go through *all* of the wires on that side, undo them, clean them, and reconnect them. The engine is straining on one of them during hard turns.

bs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Does your tach drop to 0 at the same time, while the engine is still turning? If not, it's likely not an ignition issue as the tach reacts to spark timing.

Just my 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
I agree with exception: I just had the worst time trying to track down the exact same problem on a GTV6...ran fine when first started for a few miles then ran like crap,,ESPECIALLY when making a turn!!

I was not a ground, and everything replaced, short somewhere and not on ignition side...

So I bought a Haltech to manage fuel....(Not yet installed)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Does your tach drop to 0 at the same time, while the engine is still turning? If not, it's likely not an ignition issue as the tach reacts to spark timing.

Just my 2 cents.
Did not notice if tach dropped. If I was loosing just spark, and the injectors were still working, I would expect a backfire or exhaust pop when it refired. No such thing occured, just instant silence and then instant power upon exiting corner.
The battery ground should not be an issue. The battery is properly secured and terminals taped. A functioning alternator develops the electricity for the system when the engine is running, eliminating the battery ground as a source of the problem. All the grounds in the engine bay have been checked and cleaned several times. I suspect that the harness supplying power to the spark box and or injectors is grounding or loosing power. After all, the mechanic that installed the 3.0 L engine and the harness (me) is known to make mistakes. But the engine was installed 3 years ago and this is the first time this particular problem occured.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
How about a fuel pump problem?
You know that thing hangs underneath your car there, and is subject to some forces... I've had an intermittent fuel pump once, but they're not cheap.
However, I'd expect it to stutter or not be smooth right after this happened...

Perhaps your ECU connection? I've seen that one fail a number of times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
How about a fuel pump problem?
You know that thing hangs underneath your car there, and is subject to some forces... I've had an intermittent fuel pump once, but they're not cheap.
However, I'd expect it to stutter or not be smooth right after this happened...

Perhaps your ECU connection? I've seen that one fail a number of times.
The fuel pump connection was the first thing I checked. Also if I pulled the inertial switch, the pump shut off but the engine kept running for a little bit due to residual pressure in the fuel rail. Not an instant cut out like on the track.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Makes sense. I'm not an expert by far but then it seems to me like something that regulates both is failing... that'd mean an overarching system like the ECU or one of its connections?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
The fuel pump connection was the first thing I checked. Also if I pulled the inertial switch, the pump shut off but the engine kept running for a little bit due to residual pressure in the fuel rail. Not an instant cut out like on the track.
Seems almost certainly to be an electrical problem. Think of all of the electrical connections that can cause your GTV6 to die instantly, narrow your search down to those on the right side of the motor (both on the motor and the engine compartment on the right side), and start going through them.

My guess would be the wire at the base of the distributer, or perhaps one of the wires going to the dual relay (which is very problematic in GTV6's). Also, the wires connecting to the starter solenoid.

Don't just wiggle the wires, yank them off, clean them, put them back.

bs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Jim,

I've had two GTV6's with this exact same problem so I feel your pain. I called my friend who is an Alfa mechanic and he told me it could be a couple different things. On one of my cars, it was the oxygen sensor wires on the passenger side of the firewall that were rubbing on something and shorting out. On the other, it was the 6 prong? modular box that hangs upside down by the steering column. It has a fat green wire going to it. If your car has had rust issues around the windshield, water can get in here and cause some havoc.

Check these two things out and hopefully you'll find the issue. I'm no mechanic, but I hope that helps.

Marco
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Top