Joined
·
622 Posts
Don't know how they did this , but this is for sale in LA
Lancia Delta Integrale 16V
No relation to seller etc. etc. etc.
Lancia Delta Integrale 16V
No relation to seller etc. etc. etc.
Delta Integrale
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Joined
·
3,966 Posts
A 1991 Integrale with "US title and registration"? Yeah, right. Ask the seller to show you the Federal paperwork.
It's not impossible to smuggle one of these in, and get it registered in a "friendly" state (not California, obviously); there are several Integrales in the US in various legal (or not) situations. But getting it into the US and legally kepping it here are two different things. Because a valid title is virtually meaningless, and even a valid state registration won't help you with the Feds.
Five years is a long time to drive looking over your shoulder.
It's not impossible to smuggle one of these in, and get it registered in a "friendly" state (not California, obviously); there are several Integrales in the US in various legal (or not) situations. But getting it into the US and legally kepping it here are two different things. Because a valid title is virtually meaningless, and even a valid state registration won't help you with the Feds.
Five years is a long time to drive looking over your shoulder.
Gosh $27K for a 16v, why would you, an 8v Delta Integrale, offers virtually the same level of performance but are also about 1/2 the price and with far less maintenance complications.
Here are a few pics of my brother's latest acquisition, at last year's club display. The Integrale wasn't registered at that stage, hence it arrived on a trailer. No dramas registering them here, we have a Special Interest scheme for classics, also as per in the case of the integrale a SI Rally category.
Don't you guys over there don't have such rego schemes ?
Here are a few pics of my brother's latest acquisition, at last year's club display. The Integrale wasn't registered at that stage, hence it arrived on a trailer. No dramas registering them here, we have a Special Interest scheme for classics, also as per in the case of the integrale a SI Rally category.
Don't you guys over there don't have such rego schemes ?
Attachments
Joined
·
3,966 Posts
Not really. As a very rough generalization, here's how it works here: An example of a model that wasn't officially imported must be at least 25 years old to enter the US for road use without restriction. Otherwise, you need to get the car Federally certified privately, which is an expensive proposition even if that model has been privately Federalized before; if no examples of your model have already been certified, it's a very expensive proposition. And I seriously doubt that an Integrale has ever been Federalized. Either way I believe the process involves posting a bond, in addition to the cost of the computer modeling and testing and modifications that might be needed. But absent that, you end up on a display only permit, which allows very limited road use--essentially on the equivalent of a day pass, and not very often. It's pretty sad.
Hey Ed, how indeed sad that your government's rules are out of step with sensibility. I guess out here we must be a little more enlightened in allowing for such cars to be registered and used, even though never imported and/of being LHD.
Each State and Territory has slightly different schemes permitting their use, under certain conditions. Here in Tassie for instance, the SI scheme allows for the use of such permitted cars, 52 days per year, and you are required to log the useage. The concept in Victoria is linked to car clubs, but is even more flexible.
The other advantage is that registration costs under our scheme are 1/2 of the normal cost while in other States it is even cheaper. The point being it recognises there is a wide community of car enthusiasts who have multiple cars, especially classic (ie. over 25 years old), modified, race/rally etc, and as such they are not normally used as everyday transport.
Perhaps it is time in the US, car clubs etc bandied together to call for such a scheme to allow the use of these cars. Just a thought.
Each State and Territory has slightly different schemes permitting their use, under certain conditions. Here in Tassie for instance, the SI scheme allows for the use of such permitted cars, 52 days per year, and you are required to log the useage. The concept in Victoria is linked to car clubs, but is even more flexible.
The other advantage is that registration costs under our scheme are 1/2 of the normal cost while in other States it is even cheaper. The point being it recognises there is a wide community of car enthusiasts who have multiple cars, especially classic (ie. over 25 years old), modified, race/rally etc, and as such they are not normally used as everyday transport.
Perhaps it is time in the US, car clubs etc bandied together to call for such a scheme to allow the use of these cars. Just a thought.
Joined
·
3,966 Posts
Import restrictions are Federal; registration and use regs are by state. And we don't generally have real problems with the use of the cars once they're here. In California, at least, registration is significantly cheaper than a newer car, and classic insurance is very cheap by comparison.
So the problem with this Integrale isn't that you couldn't get it registered anywhere (though you couldn't register it in California without subterfuge, due to our state emissions regs). But there are people in other states who have them legally registered in their state. And in states where it's otherwise impossible (like California) there have been instance of registering an Integrale under what we'll call an "alias", without further elaboration on a public forum.
But even if it's legally registered for the road with a particular state, if it wasn't legally imported into the US in the first place, there's always a possibility that it can be seized by the Feds. It's not all that likely to happen--it's a big country, with more than enough cars that you can hide one in plain sight. But that's the issue with an Integrale, not daily use.
So the problem with this Integrale isn't that you couldn't get it registered anywhere (though you couldn't register it in California without subterfuge, due to our state emissions regs). But there are people in other states who have them legally registered in their state. And in states where it's otherwise impossible (like California) there have been instance of registering an Integrale under what we'll call an "alias", without further elaboration on a public forum.
But even if it's legally registered for the road with a particular state, if it wasn't legally imported into the US in the first place, there's always a possibility that it can be seized by the Feds. It's not all that likely to happen--it's a big country, with more than enough cars that you can hide one in plain sight. But that's the issue with an Integrale, not daily use.
Joined
·
764 Posts
I've owned several Euro BMWs and currently own a Euro BMW M635CSi. The DOT/EPA conversion is expensive and quite time consuming for a non-federalised vehicle in the US. They have to go to a specialised import company with a bond in place prior to commencing the appropriate conversion. This used to be about $15k for a decent car and normally 6 months. It's got to be worth the investment.
I doubt these Integrales are legal. They may be titled as one stated but are not technically legal and here's the skinny on these cars.
It's been a few years, but a call to Dick Merritt at the US Dept of Transportation (DOT) (got him from the Ferrari Club mag) and furnish him the VIN. He'd look the car's VIN up right then and tell you if it's a good one. My 1st Euro M635CSi had been federalised but the owner didn't have the paperwork and Dick sent me copies for registration and insurance purposes; circa 1989. I looked at a Euro '93 BMW E34 M5 3.8 ltr in '05 from Boston. Sent confirmation to purchase and retained the car transporter at $200 USD. I called Dick and he said it was an 'orphan' vehicle is what they are now coined. The car was originally imported for the Austrian UN Ambassador's wife under the Diplomatic clause. The premise is one of these stipulations:
1. The car must leave the country upon exit of the diplomat.
2. The car has to be federalised prior to selling in the US or the new owner to go through the process.
3. The car is to be crushed.
Dick said they aren't actively going after these cars because in his words, "they'll eventually show up" and then the current owner is stuck with the fines and penalties and all the nastiness the gov't can come up with. I told this to the seller of the BMW and he tried to ignore me. Too bad for him. I told him to cough up the $200 clams or I'd Rat him out to the DOT. I got my money back.
Think somewhere down the line someone won't suspect a Lancia Integrale? Too bad for this because I wish they were legal as I'd jump on one in a New York minute>>>
I doubt these Integrales are legal. They may be titled as one stated but are not technically legal and here's the skinny on these cars.
It's been a few years, but a call to Dick Merritt at the US Dept of Transportation (DOT) (got him from the Ferrari Club mag) and furnish him the VIN. He'd look the car's VIN up right then and tell you if it's a good one. My 1st Euro M635CSi had been federalised but the owner didn't have the paperwork and Dick sent me copies for registration and insurance purposes; circa 1989. I looked at a Euro '93 BMW E34 M5 3.8 ltr in '05 from Boston. Sent confirmation to purchase and retained the car transporter at $200 USD. I called Dick and he said it was an 'orphan' vehicle is what they are now coined. The car was originally imported for the Austrian UN Ambassador's wife under the Diplomatic clause. The premise is one of these stipulations:
1. The car must leave the country upon exit of the diplomat.
2. The car has to be federalised prior to selling in the US or the new owner to go through the process.
3. The car is to be crushed.
Dick said they aren't actively going after these cars because in his words, "they'll eventually show up" and then the current owner is stuck with the fines and penalties and all the nastiness the gov't can come up with. I told this to the seller of the BMW and he tried to ignore me. Too bad for him. I told him to cough up the $200 clams or I'd Rat him out to the DOT. I got my money back.
Think somewhere down the line someone won't suspect a Lancia Integrale? Too bad for this because I wish they were legal as I'd jump on one in a New York minute>>>
Joined
·
3,966 Posts
Exactly what I was getting at--that a clear title and state registration doesn't protect you against the Feds.
And Brooks' M635CSi was easier for its previous owner to federalize than an Integrale would be. The M635CSi was closely related to a US federalized model. That certainly doesn't apply to the Integrale, which wouldn't have any equivalent-model structural certification (i.e., crash testing). That means you'd need to model the body structure. So I think you'd be in for substantially more than $15k for federalization.
Or just don't go beyond the state registration, and roll the dice.
No good choice among those two, IMHO.
And Brooks' M635CSi was easier for its previous owner to federalize than an Integrale would be. The M635CSi was closely related to a US federalized model. That certainly doesn't apply to the Integrale, which wouldn't have any equivalent-model structural certification (i.e., crash testing). That means you'd need to model the body structure. So I think you'd be in for substantially more than $15k for federalization.
Or just don't go beyond the state registration, and roll the dice.
No good choice among those two, IMHO.
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!