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Discussion Starter #1
hello,
i had read somewhere that dellortos and webers will bolt right onto a spica manifold and that by kinking the throttle linkage will bypass having to change the entire gas pedal and linkage system. has anyone actually done this and how reliable is it?
 

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Carbs to Spica?

No, you need a set of adapter blocks that Shankle made awhile back. I think that someone is still making them. Perhaps Alfa Ricambi has them or you can find a used set.
KG
 

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Here's a picture from the International Auto Parts website showing their Spica-Weber conversion kit. Although this picture shows two Weber carbs, I believe IAP also sells the kit without carbs.


In the top-center of the picture, you can see the two adapter plates that PAUGNUT1275 referred to. At the bottom-center you can see the bent piece of linkage that connects the Spica bellcrank to the carb throttle lever. These kits also include block-off plates for the Spica pump and thermostatic actuator.

So yea, converting from Spica to carbs is more than just a bolt-on.
 

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71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
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There seems to be an issue with the bent short rod binding onto the body of the carb which prohibits WOT. I also ran into that problem with mine. To correct and get WOT I welded an extension on the bellcrank to bring the rod out about 7/16ths. It allows the rod to go all the way down. hope this helps
 

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Buy a "correct" carb manifold (with the complete throttle pedal linkage) from a euro-market spider and get the "correct" air filter box. too. Other than that you'll need a low-pressure, low-volume fuel pump, fuel filter, and fuel pressure regulator. Half-assed conversion kits yield half-assed results.

If you're still hell-bent on that ridiculously low-quality, over-priced, and somewhat incomplete IAP kit, carefully consider sending your Spica pump to Wes Ingram for a rebuild instead, which will provide not only the best performance, but also the best value and reliability.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Well Mr. fresh water fish, lets see, your answer is to scour ebay for an assortment of parts at least half of will be junk or in need of extensive repair and end up spending 30-50% of the car's value for a simple carb conversion? Sorry but there is a clause in MY trust fund about how much money I can waste on toys. What you call half assed is in my opinion fun, improvisation and ingenuity.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Wow they are very clean carbs. Thanks for the info.
 

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Well Mr. fresh water fish, lets see, your answer is to scour ebay for an assortment of parts at least half of will be junk or in need of extensive repair and end up spending 30-50% of the car's value for a simple carb conversion? Sorry but there is a clause in MY trust fund about how much money I can waste on toys. What you call half assed is in my opinion fun, improvisation and ingenuity.
No - my answer was to not waste your money and butcher your car with that crappy IAP kit. Send your Spica pump to Wes and get it right.

The IAP junk is $1500+, A Spica rebuild is $940. Do the math. Even if the costs were reversed, one repair enhances the value of your car, while the other detracts. One increases performance and reliability, while the other detracts.

How is piecing together some junk to make a set of carbs fit a Spica FI manifold "fun, improvisation and ingenuity"? The throttle binding issue has already been brought up, but what about the lack of durability of the adapters, and their inability to properly isolate heat and vibration from the carbs? What are you planning on for an air cleaner? More crap from IAP to pull hot engine bay air into your carbs, along with all tha grit that a proper filter would remove?

It's your car, do what you want, but there's always a right way and a wrong way, and cost is not necessarily the determining factor as to which is which. That's all I was trying to point out. Take it personally, which was not my intent, or take it as good advice from a fellow Alfa owner of more than 35 years.
 

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71 Berlina 74 GTV 17 Giulia Q4
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1969, to present 42 years, I wouldn't trust even myself sometimes giving good advice from a fellow Alfa owner of more than 42 years. Just standing by and giving an objective opinion, your writing style is somewhat confontational and condecending and I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, just giving an honest opinon and we know what those are worth so I hope you take it that way. Just remembr your thoughts are just that, an opinion. you can take it from there....:)
I have an HP pump and rebuilt ta from Wes and couldn't be more happy with it along with the other mods I've done to that motor. I cannot speak to whether or not the IAP kit is junk but I've got another motor with the webers and spica conversion and it is trouble free and works just fine. Both motors have the motronics, ported to JimK's specs, 11mm cams (I suppose those are junk too because they are not some fancy profile of other cams that are twice, three times the price) and a bunch of other modifications I've listed to many times to do it again. Both motors put out pretty much the same hp with the main difference being the sound of the webers and gas milage. The weber motor is going into the 74 spider I'm restoring and it came with the shankle plates and the set of webers shown. All I had to buy was the nuts, spring washers, and 0 ring spacers and linkage so it was a no brainer for me. Carter makes the perfect pump and it bolts right into place where the spica pump went and was only 57 bucks. I've listed the model number here before and since I've spept since then and cannot remember the exact number but it shouldn't be hard to find. That way there is no messing with a regulator and it looks cleaner. In short the euro manifold is nice but certainly not necessary because the spica conversion works just fine. Will it be "correct" well no but then again a euro manifold on a spica car is not "correct" either.
This is how the spica conversion that works just fine looks and imho it's not to hard on the eyes.
 

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your writing style is somewhat confontational and condecending and.....
gigem75:

Were you observing that poods2 or Kilgore Trout was "confontational and condecending" ? While the two might disagree on the "Spica vs Weber" issue, they seem to find commonality in their writing styles.
 

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Sorry if I came across in a way I didn't mean to. Really. Might have been "channeling" my good friend the late Fred D., and if I meant to disparage anyone it was directed at IAP, and I think well-deserved.

Back to the point, and to address the OP's request for info - Nothing will perform better than one of Wes' Spica pumps, will require less maintenance, and be easier to install/set up. And, it costs less and preserves the value of the Spider. Where's the downside? Nothing "engineered" by IAP will improve on what Alfa did with the early Spiders.

Anyone think the phone jockeys at IAP will help the OP properly jet and tune a set of carbs?
 

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Whoa - BIG issue here I just noticed. In the OP's sig, he mentions his Spider as being an '81. If the intake is original, it's the Spica FI, but with the "monofarfalle" (single butterfly) intake manifold.

So, the option of using the IAP kit is moot, isn't it? And to be honest, I wouldn't bother sending the Spica to Wes for a rebuild, either. Rock and a hard place, unless an entire intake setup (carbs or FI) can be sourced from an earlier car.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If anyone is still subscribed to this thread it's way past time I manned up and apologized to K.T. for my vitriol. Gigem you are correct sir my writing style is confrontational based on sarcasm and certainly testing the boundaries of good taste but like opinions everyone is different and that's what makes a horse race.
Back to business.
The car has a '77-'78 intake with the idle air adjust. I have made repeated attempts at dialing in the Spica FI pump following Oregon groups guidelines on tuning but the car still runs very rich and fouls the plugs regularly and watching my brother & father drive off on the 4th of July it was blowing some smoke out of the tailpipe as well. Wasn't white or black just a shade of gray.
 

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Sooo...What did you end up doing poods2? I have an '81 with the monofarfalle and I'm thinking of converting to an earlier multe-butterfly set-up. That said, I have to keep the option of Webers on the table if I can't get the Spica dialed it.
 

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Scuderiazane:

I know exactly zero about the 1981 "monofarfalle" Spica system. However, if you want to change it, the advice offered by Gigem75 and Kilgore Trout in posts #6 and 7 of this thread seems pertinent.

If you decide to install Webers, you'll need to buy a different intake manifold - I'd advise you to buy a factory Weber manifold, not the earlier Spica manifold + adapter plates. The throttle linkage and carb-manifold isolation mounts are better engineered in the factory set-up.
 

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Thanks Jay. Carbs are absolutely last resort, so not going there anytime soon. Actually one of the reasons for buying the S2 was to punish...ah challenge myself with the Spica system. Plus I've heard, once set up, its a cool system.
 
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