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Discussion Starter #1
I'm just full of luck with this car. 2" of snow outside, half way to work, I slow down at an intersection and the engine just dies-2K Rpms to nothing. Tried to restart, engine barely turned over, maybe half a revolution, like the battery was dead, but low and behold, all lights are nice and bright. So my question would be: What circuits are energized only while trying to start and when the engine is actually running? Fuel pumps, ecu??I believe I have a short somewhere along those lines. I've ruled out the Jacobs system as its diagnostics are telling me it is working fine and I bypassed and went to the oem system and pulled the fuse out on the jacobs-still no start, no full cranking-lights (dash and parking lights-not headlights) got very very dim while trying to crank, but lit right back up after the fact.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Is the fuel pump relay fused? If not couldn't a dead short in it cause this problem?
I'm thinking that or the alternator may have a dead short in it when the coil gets energized by the green wire going to it, that only gets energized while cranking and running, right?
 

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the first statement that the engine barely turned over but the lights were bright, indicates a bad starter or solenoid. a starter really trying would dim the lights a lot. check the engine grounds. the positive battery lead being bad would make the lights go out when you hit the starter.
good luck
cliff
 

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A bad starter would not have caused the car to turn off, however... In the series 3, the fuel connections are inside the rear shelf, next to the ECU, and it is not unusual for something to go amiss there. That's the first place I would look. The Cardisc that you have, David, should have the details, as I am not familiar with the series 3 Motronic set-up... Hopefully this is not anything too crazy, and I would agree that the Jacobs is not the issue.

Best regards,
 

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but there is nothing on the back shelf that would keep the starter from turning. mostlikely battery connections or grounds.
cliff
 

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but there is nothing on the back shelf that would keep the starter from turning. mostlikely battery connections or grounds.
cliff
Agreed, nothing in the rear shelf about the starter or battery, but the fuel pump fuse and connections for the fuel pump are there. That's what I was suggesting...

Best regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #7
but there is nothing on the back shelf that would keep the starter from turning. mostlikely battery connections or grounds.
cliff
You are the winner! The car was just towed here 45minutes ago. Everything seems to be getting ground except the engine and ignition. The jacobs diagnostic was going back and forth saying everything was ok and the battery voltage was too low. I am getting positive 12.2V at the power junction under hood, when grounded against the frame, I still need to check from the junction to the engine. The car started to turn over freely when the jacobs system said everything was ok, so it is a loose or badly corroded ground situation. Where are these ground straps at?
 

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There is a power distribution block on the driver's fender, where all the red wires go. One of them goes back to charge the battery.

Check those connections and also the negative battery ground at the battery in the trunk as well as the battery clamp connections.

I assume your battery is good?

TTFN Elio
 

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Discussion Starter #9
There is a power distribution block on the driver's fender, where all the red wires go. One of them goes back to charge the battery.

Check those connections and also the negative battery ground at the battery in the trunk as well as the battery clamp connections.

I assume your battery is good?

TTFN Elio
I already checked those connections and they are good-at the (what you call the power distribution block) junction box. It seems half the spider has good ground, but parts of it don't:confused: Every positive wire I tested showed 12.2V against the frame ground-unfortunately, it is snowing and extremely cold outside, so my diagnostic time is short before I have to come back in. I'm still trying to warm back up. Battery is less than 4 months old.
 

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to verify the ground from engine to battery, use a jumper cable from neg on the battery to the engine, it it cranks, then the ground strap is bad.
cliff
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Not sure if this is related, but, my stereo lost all power to it last night, after 5 minutes it came back on asking for the security code, I've not put the code back in, as this happened before and it was loose wires on the back of the fuse panel. Is there multiple grounds wires that feed into the panel? Should this be the starting point or is this unrelated-as it has happened before (it is pain in the butt to reset the stereo, resave radio stations, set the EQ-so not sure if it has lost all power again).
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
to verify the ground from engine to battery, use a jumper cable from neg on the battery to the engine, it it cranks, then the ground strap is bad.
cliff
My cables aren't long enough-did attempt that. Was wondering if I used my girls dodge durango and hooked the positive up to the junction block and ground to frame...no start, put negative to the block and try again...still trying to feel my toes-whatever happened to global warming?!
Also, tow truck driver used flat bed, used those hooks on the front of the car that was mentioned not to be used for towing (I wasn't there when it was being picked up, just dropped off), what damage might that have caused....Yes, one hell of a morning!
 

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Also, tow truck driver used flat bed, used those hooks on the front of the car that was mentioned not to be used for towing (I wasn't there when it was being picked up, just dropped off), what damage might that have caused....Yes, one hell of a morning!
No damage, David. I wouldn't worry about pulling the car up on the bed once. In fact, I know of several Spiders whose owners have always pulled them up from the hooks, until they were told not to. It's just not advisable, especially when Alfa specifically stated not to do so. When you look at how these are attached to the car, you can understand why they can't really be expected to sustain the car's weight. If you had pulled the car for a few miles from the hooks however, then I would be worried that they would be stressed to the point of being close to coming off.

Best regards,
 

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Discussion Starter #14
No damage, David. I wouldn't worry about pulling the car up on the bed once. In fact, I know of several Spiders whose owners have always pulled them up from the hooks, until they were told not to. It's just not advisable, especially when Alfa specifically stated not to do so. When you look at how these are attached to the car, you can understand why they can't really be expected to sustain the car's weight. If you had pulled the car for a few miles from the hooks however, then I would be worried that they would be stressed to the point of being close to coming off.

Best regards,
Well that put my mind at ease! Thanks Enrique. I'm warmed up, time for some more work....
 

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Discussion Starter #16
how about a jumper from body to engine?
cliff
Just tried that!!!! But no, to no avail, I used two separate grounding points on that as well. It is turning over a lot better with the Durango on it, better with it attached at the frame then on the engine:confused::confused: There has to be a short somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Do these cars have any fusible links???
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Still not starting! Voltmeter in the dash reads 13V with the durango hooked up, Jacobs doesn't complain about voltage being too low, tried to start, same sympton, though the engine turned a few revolutions instead of just half of one. My stereo is not getting any power whatsoever, it is dead, problem in the fuse block? *** is going on here.
 

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I have you a solution....

You likely have a power wire terminal at the starter or the junction box that needs to be replaced. So in otherwords....pull the hot wires off the starter, recut the wire, and replace the wire terminal. Then do the same for the hot wire running from the starter to the driver's side junction box.

Then move over to the junction box and do the same for all the wire terminals connecting to the junction box. While you are at it...check the hot wire coming from the alternator to the junction box.

The power on these cars runs from the battery to the starter, from the starter to the junction box, from the junction box to the fuse box, and from the fuse box to the rest of the car.

The ground strap runs from one of the bolts on the bell housing to the chassis.

Best Regards,
John M
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I have you a solution....

You likely have a power wire terminal at the starter that needs to be replaced. So in otherwords....pull the hot wires off the starter, recut the wire, and replace the wire terminal. Then do the same for the hot wire running from the starter to the driver's side junction box.

Then move over to the junction box and do the same for all the wire terminals connecting to the junction box. While you are at it...check the hot wire coming from the alternator to the junction box.

The ground strap runs from one of the bolts on the bell housing to the chassis.

Best Regards,
John M
Couldn't have happened last week when it was 55 degrees outside??? Straps are good 0 ohms between engine and frame. My radio is still dead, but everything else works-no blown fuses. I think you are right on the cable to the starter and then to the junction box. If that puppy is loose, it could be very well the culprit of my problems. then again, this going to require me to remove the plenum box-again:mad:
 
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