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Discussion Starter #1
Just sprouted a cooling leak on my Milano. It's below the water pump but also in the engine V so not sure where it's coming exactly? When the water pumps leak on these cars, where do they usually leak? The water pump is not making any suspicious sounds at all. I've reached around as best I can under all the hoses in that area and really can't tell where it's coming from.

Any ideas???

Looks like it's from that rectangular gasket so I guess that's an easy first step.

I've had a Milano pump make noise before but I've never had one leak.

I'm just making sure the pump isn't bad before I order parts.

Thanks.


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Water pump will leak out from behind the pulley. The two rubber hoses out the back of the thermostat housing would be my top guess here.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Man those 2 bulging water hoses look real bad. I would look over all your hoses and replace as need be after you pinpoint your leak
Those hoses pretty much looked like that immediately after installation and the leak is not from there; hoses are dry underneath. And hoses are proper type but I admit the bulging is not a good look! Those hoses are about 10 years old. Other hoses are OLD! Came with car so we're talking 90's. But none are leaking and none have ever failed so I've been lucky. I have all new hoses ready to go; been meaning to install them. Also have new belts, new brass bleed bolt.
I need to degrease and clean that whole area, replace all the gaskets and maybe thermostat but not sure if I should do the WP. It's another $100 and I don't think it's the problem although could be the WP gasket, hard to tell exactly. WP is easy enough to do if I have to go back in....
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Does anyone know the 2 short hose diameters? Might be a good place for silicone to fend off all the oil that gets on them in that location. I know there are different sizes but I believe mine are same size on both ends.
 

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This situation would be a great example to use a cooling system pressure tester on. Some parts stores rent them. You might also need the squishy rubber stepped adapter if they don’t have something that matches your cap threads.
 

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First of all, that engine is absolutely covered in oil. What's going on there? That is not normal. Might have more than a coolant leak. The timing belt looks fairly dry on the teeth, but something needs to be addressed there.

Second, those hoses shouldn't look like that. I suspect the short hoses are leaking as others mentioned.One of the photos, it even looks wet on one end... Its possible the hose stays warm enough long enough to evaporate some of the coolant that remains after shutdown while the pooling does not (or the stuff mixing with the large quantity of oil grime on the engine).

Dont' use silicone hoses if you have oil leak problems like that. Silicone does not hold up to oil and will fail.

3/4" hose will work there. Might want some high spec hose, I suggest to replace the clamps with a wider, smooth stainless clamp.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
First of all, that engine is absolutely covered in oil. What's going on there? That is not normal. Might have more than a coolant leak. The timing belt looks fairly dry on the teeth, but something needs to be addressed there.

Second, those hoses shouldn't look like that. I suspect the short hoses are leaking as others mentioned.One of the photos, it even looks wet on one end... Its possible the hose stays warm enough long enough to evaporate some of the coolant that remains after shutdown while the pooling does not (or the stuff mixing with the large quantity of oil grime on the engine).

Dont' use silicone hoses if you have oil leak problems like that. Silicone does not hold up to oil and will fail.

3/4" hose will work there. Might want some high spec hose, I suggest to replace the clamps with a wider, smooth stainless clamp.
That, my friend, is a well loved and happy Alfa V6 engine! The oil is mostly from valve covers which are not leaking excessively but this is a matter of years of a small leak which trickles down.... Then, take such an engine and park it in the desert for a year and a half to coat it with dust and dirt and there you have it.
Oh, I had a leaking belt tensioner that also sprayed oil from the spinning belt all over but that was a few years ago. Tensioner was rebuilt and timing belt replaced but engine wasn't cleaned as it's not that easy with no driveway or water source other than super high pressure car washes.

And the short hoses ARE NOT LEAKING. does everyone hear that? NOT LEAKING. You guys really hate those hoses but I swear they've been like that since installation about 10 years ago. They are sealed with some kind of goo but I can't remember what I used; that's what is seen seeping out. That could be why they bulged also; maybe since they are glued in place, they weren't allowed to slide and therefore bulged. But they are healthy although I will replace when I reseal and/or replace water pump.
However, I sprayed some degreaser on the leaking area today and then went for a drive. I also tightened the 4 10mm bolts into the top of the WP. They weren't loose but they also weren't really tight so it may be that simple. I'll keep an eye on it and see what happens.
Some pics from today:

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The bolts I tightened, the ones on top and vertical going into WP

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After driving, nothing leaking so far...

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The engine...not clean but not a cesspool of leaking oil either.



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You can see the slightly leaking valve covers but by no means excessive. I think the majority of the oil is from a previous leak in the belt tensioner which has been rebuilt a few years ago. Maybe it's time to give the engine a cleaning....It was spotless when installed 10 years ago but oil manages to find a way out....
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
So, a strange update on this problem. After a few more drives I noticed some leaking at the back of the engine, from the hose coming out of the rear of the cylinder head and into a connector for a long thin hose to the overflow reservoir and also a hose into the car interior. So I replaced this curved hose with the appropriate sized hose and then I degreased and washed the front of the engine and now there is no more leaking! Apparently the rear hose I replaced was filling the engine V where it then came to the front and under braking, flowed over and appeared to be coming from the water pump. And of course I now have a new water pump and complete gaskets which don't need replacing.

Also, you short hose fans will be happy to learn that the swollen hoses will go a little longer but I will be replacing all hoses, timing belt, gaskets and possibly S cams!

And some pics:
The leaking hose at the back of the driver's side cylinder head.
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But no leaking after quite a bit of driving and high revs!
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And the much cleaner engine although I figured I'd fully clean it when I replaced the water pump...
 

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Nice going catching that rear heater hose off the back of the head. Cleaner looks great. Looks like you are missing a bolt on the power steering pump bracket. Hopefully when you do your timing belt the water pump pulley won't have any play and you can just leave it as is.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So, a strange update on this problem. After a few more drives I noticed some leaking at the back of the engine, from the hose coming out of the rear of the cylinder head and into a connector for a long thin hose to the overflow reservoir and also a hose into the car interior. So I replaced this curved hose with the appropriate sized hose and then I degreased and washed the front of the engine and now there is no more leaking! Apparently the rear hose I replaced was filling the engine V where it then came to the front and under braking, flowed over and appeared to be coming from the water pump. And of course I now have a new water pump and complete gaskets which don't need replacing.

Also, you short hose fans will be happy to learn that the swollen hoses will go a little longer but I will be replacing all hoses, timing belt, gaskets and possibly S cams!

And some pics:
The leaking hose at the back of the driver's side cylinder head.
View attachment 1673558






But no leaking after quite a bit of driving and high revs!
View attachment 1673559


View attachment 1673560
And the much cleaner engine although I figured I'd fully clean it when I replaced the water pump...
Nice going catching that rear heater hose off the back of the head. Cleaner looks great. Looks like you are missing a bolt on the power steering pump bracket. Hopefully when you do your timing belt the water pump pulley won't have any play and you can just leave it as is.
Thanks. Yeah, I think that bolt hole is stripped and my power steering is disabled now.

I was really looking forward to installing my S cams but now I'm not sure if I'll just wait on everything. I also have a leaky radiator so trying to decide on that too. And I have to do all my work on the street, ghetto style, so tackling the cams makes me nervous. Should have done them during lockdown when the parking enforcement was inactive....

Still, I really want to feel those cams....
(Yes, I know they don't do very much... but still....)
 

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So why are you doing a timing belt replacement now? Are you due for a t-belt based on miles or years? I mean you found your leak and it wasn't the water pump.

When it comes to water pumps I'm in the, better the devil you know, than the devil you don't know camp. I've seen old but wobble free water pumps replaced with, new in the box water pumps that crapped out in a few months. My experience with these pumps is that when they are start to fail, the front pulley (of the water pump) begins to wobble, then the weep hole in the pump body starts leaking. If neither of those things are happening I don't replace the pump, no matter how old it is.

When it is time to replace the pump I believe in having the old pump rebuilt and reinstalled. That old pump body is a old casting that has been through a million heat cycles and is now dimensional stable. It's much preferable to the brand new casting that is still full of all the stresses of the casting/forging process.

Don't throw away your old pumps, liners, cams etc etc. Put them in your stash pile.

Bye for now
 
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